If Mayo had a Murphy over the years no question I think they'd have won at least one AI in those years.

Good piece WJ...what's very noticeable when watching donegal also is their reluctancy to kick ball unless they need to...they continually run ball which cost them alot of turnovers...selector mcgee said as much after..now Langan was exceptionally good and kicked alot of scores, but he won't get such space again..Tyrone were better with foot passes..the ball will travel faster than any guy can run. The new rules creates space and one v ones in the forward line.

Thats a hall mark of Mcguinness however...he would have seriously preferred if the FRC didn't change the rules, especially as his top man was on the committee..they should have more experience with it than anyone..but a creator at 11, nope they don't have it in Thompson however hes not a bad point scorer..will still take beating but I just think they rely too much on transition running..like if you have Gallen Murphy mcbrearty inside at all...you'd be banging ball into them

Tyrone 2/5 , Mayo 5/2 with the bookies . Odds reflective of recent form . Hopefully Tyrone have sore bodies from yesterday and we can give ourselves a chance by building an early lead . What is becoming glaringly obvious in the new rules is two pointers are massive and kick outs going wrong can destroy ya . Our reaction to last week will tell us a lot about the character of the team , personally I still believe it’s in them but I’m a very green n red glasses type ejit when the chips are down .

Two formidable outfits, sure, but I fear for Cavan, as they'll meet the brunt of McGuiness' wrath before Mayo. Nevertheless, Tyrone won't be relishing another bruising battle either. I'd be hoping Tyrone had so much invested in yesterday they'll flounder next weekend. Hope springs eternal.

It was a good game to watch from a neutral perspective but I'm revising my thoughts on Donegal. I thought Armagh left the Ulster final behind them and only for Murphy's placed balls and a MOM performance from Langan they were poor. Think none of their starting forwards scored either or maybe one late on. Tyrone look a nice balanced team and thought they did very well around the middle. Having said that I didn't think they were unbeatable either.

It depends which Mayo turns up to know if we have a chance, hoping for salvation part one rather than apocalypse 2....

Time for a peak mayo performance… run of mill lateral shite in the first half, black card and maybe 1st own-2pm score, when breeze catches a wayward lateral pass… just to lull Tyrone further… then in 2nd half we start lamping 2 pointers and long balls to Aidan and goals coming of em… have ye not seen this script before? ( I know.. u don’t follow mayo since 89 without being a bit cracked!).. there must be a kick in them …

Good article wj, sums it up for us.Two class teams, Donegal and Tyrone, both collectively and individually. There were some brilliant 'plays' to create openings, even in difficult conditions. Keeper should have done better for Tyrone's second goal, and Tyrone keeper brought off one stunning save.
I think the bookies have it about right.. Tyrone will be gunning for top position in group, they have a 6' 7" midfielder to mop up long kickouts but most importantly, when they win turnover, they have a plan and execute it at speed. We don't.

"... almost certainly have to get something out of our upcoming meetings with both of them if we’re to avoid the ignominy of failing to qualify for the knockout stage".

That would be ideal, but far from "almost certainly" in terms of our survival in the competition.

Our most likely path to a pQF since the final whistle in our own game has always been beating the team that lost yesterday. That's still the case. A win against Donegal in R3 and at worst we're in a 3 way tie going to Score Difference (with an outside shot of a Cavan result in either of their two remaining games that would see us pip Donegal on H2H).

A win in Omagh on its own could very easily see us still finish in 4th.

It would open up other helpful possibilities (surviving with a draw in the final game or potentially challenging for 1st - talking about possibilities rather than probabilities) so fingers crossed. But next week now is a nice to win, paling in significance to R3 in terms of importance to us for survival in the competition.

Tyrone playing forwards in the forwards, willingness to kick the ball, a well rehearsed gameplan and players willing to put every ounce of workrate into the battle were the things imo that got them over the line. Sadly we tend to fall short on all these aspects.

Two very tough games Am I right in saying that if we lose in Omagh but by some miracle we defeat Donegal then we will finish above them on head to head. Now I know Cavan will probably also end up on 2 points as well so then it would come down to score difference. At the moment ourselves and Donegal are minus 3 while Cavan are plus 3 but no doubt that will change big time next week

I think that's right, to win just once, and you're also correct, TsuDhoNim, in pointing to the Donegal game as the key one for us. If we fail to get anything from Omagh, though, it's very hard to see us doing so against Donegal - in that case we'd be heading into that one having lost three Championship games in a row.

@to win just once: Yup, that's all spot on.

The one 'upside' to the way results went in the opening round is that we're guaranteed to have something on the line for every game in the group, with all 4 spots still up for grabs whatever way the R2 games go.

As a side likely to be looking at Score Difference for a chance to be involved further we won't have to worry about handbrakes or anyone else potentially downing tools impacting the numbers.

Win both and we’re straight into a quarter final berth. If only it was that simple. Hoping there’s a big kick in this Mayo team and we can turn it around

If Mayo win just 1 of 2 games there could reach the Quarter-final stage of the All Ireland series. If they win neither game looking forward to going to England to play London in 2026 Connacht championship.

Yep as TsoDho says, all last nights results guarantee is that this group is going down to the final day regardless. A draw last night and we would have been looking at the ignimony of getting eliminated with a round to spare. As it is, it's very likely going to come down to a donegal v mayo showdown in breffni.

I must say, i did observe some significant chinks in the donegal armour last night. They seem to have defaulted back to a bit of a reliance on murphy, seems to affect Gallen and McBrearty adversely and God knows why mulready kept pumping every kickout down his throat in the last 10 minutes when he legs were gone.

Their forward line isn't quite clicking, doesn't look as cohesive as Tyrones.

If patton, mogan and mcgonagle are carrying injuries they are significant losses

They are still all Ireland contenders alright, but like all the other contenders they also have some glaring flaws

Be interesting to see if Brian Kennedy out injured next week as tyrone not blessed with big man outside of him and Kilpatrick.

Tyrone yesterday,as others have pointed out,were a well balanced ,quality cohesive attacking force with composure galore.
Donegal looked a pale shadow of themselves. Elite sport can be unpredictable.

I think many people on here have a sober assessment of Mayo’s current capabilities. We are down in the pecking order and there’s no denying that.

I want to address the others on here who are expecting Mayo to put up a big performance and maybe beat Tyrone.That,to me at least,does not seem realistic.We don’t have the available personnel, the track record,the momentum,the systems of play or,sadly right now it seems ,the fire to pull off a win against Tyrone.

A feisty response? Possibly?
A win - extremely unlikely.
A pasting - quite possibly!

Put it another way,how many of our players would make that Tyrone team ? Not too many,I’d venture.

There is a consistent and persistent tendency on here to underestimate Tyrone. For years!

I’m not sure of the origins of this phenomenon but it’s kinda thick and counterproductive.Tyrone are a great GAA county at all levels and much better than us nine times out of ten.

They have enviable players,development structures,ambition and now track record of winning at the highest level.We would be very proud to have their record of the last two decades.

Of course all this “bias”was highly manifested in our attitude to the 2021 final and especially its aftermath. We expected to win that game. We could have won that game. Alas,we did not.

The flip side of my argument is this. Most of our big wins against Tyrone in the last ten + years were games that they should’ve won but they beat themselves with wayward shooting or ridiculous tactics.

Of course our team was better then too. Still,we always had difficulty putting them away. That we didn’t do that (put them away)in 2021 is not an anomaly.

So,what I’m saying is this. It’s unlikely that we will win against them next weekend and certainly not playing with fear of shooting.Tyrone will have to beat themselves. Again,alas,I don’t see that happening(Multiple injuries to their personnel aside)

However,we do need to support our team by showing up and having a good time. Not showing up for this game will be seriously disheartening for the team. They’ll need our support to find the grit to put up a decent performance.

They’ve given their all and the least we can do is show some pride in,and respect for,that effort. I realize it’s a hardship for many and the timing of the game is suspect but I hope our pride as Mayo people can be manifest.

Food4thought....

You're right about the inexplicable lack of respect Mayo gaa folk seem to have for Tyrone. I think the height of this was the nationally accepted narrative in the lead up to the 2021 AI Final that Kennedy/Kilpatrick were a pair of jokers in midfield and Mayos midfield of Ruane/Loftus was guaranteed to have the upper hand and be the platform for a Mayo victory, Kennedy/Kilpatrick went onto destroy us and become one of the best midfield pairings in the game. Sometimes these daft narratives and dare I say arrogance, do seep into the Mayo subconscious

I'm struggling to see where people think we're going to get the scores to beat Tyrone or Donegal, unless we've suddenly unearthed 2-3 extra scoring forwards. We might put up a good fight and keep it competitive, but beating either of them won’t be happening unless we make drastic changes to our style of play and personnel and the other team have an off day.

Tsudonim on the money as always.
It’s the Donegal game that’s key in terms of progression. However score difference is crucial next week. Shipping a big beating by say, 10 points or more with Cavan putting up a spirited showing and only losing by 2 or 3 to Donegal would be very bad news for us and we’d be very close to being effectively eliminated really.

We are already -6 points on Cavan, and we basically need to lose by less to Tyrone than Cavan will to Donegal.
A less likely but preferable scenario for mayo is a Cavan draw or win v Donegal.
In that scenario, any win v Donegal in R3 puts us through regardless of what happens in Omagh next week.

There is also a world where we beat Tyrone, lose to Donegal and still get eliminated.

Is it true that if everyone in our group ends up winning one game each even if we are better on score difference than Cavan, they are ahead of us in the ranking because they bet us.

@InExile: It's impossible for everyone to win 1 game each. With each team playing 3 games there has to be a few more points on the table.

It's possibly for 1 team to win 3 games (Tyrone or Cavan) and three teams to win 1 each which would leave a 3 way tie on 2pts. There it would go to Score Difference, where H2H wouldn't matter.

It's also possible for us to beat Tyrone, both Tyrone and Donegal to beat Cavan and Donegal to beat us which would see Donegal & Tyrone tied on 4pts along with ourselves and Cavan tied on 2pts. In that scenario Tyrone would come 1st ahead of Donegal in 2nd on H2H and Cavan would come 3rd ahead of us in 4th on H2H.

Even if we loose to tyrone it will all come down to the Donegal game. The mayo county board has to have that game in Roscommon rather than Cavan. This is vital to give us a fighting chance. I dont expect us to beat tyrone in omagh.

Missing Patton, cost Donegal the game yesterday. Much less dangerous on the kickouts. Two very balanced sides, was impressed with Donegal. Never panicked. Harte's 2 pointer the difference. Ulster teams are a step above everyone so far. Could be dark horse Tyrone going home with Sam this year. I'd like to know where we match up to both Donegal and Tyrone but kinda afraid of the answer too.

Kerry won't be tested until quarter/Semi final stage but they have very good kickers of the ball and with more space up top, croker will suit them, they'll inevitably come up against an ulster team and that'll test them..hard judge Dublin..big win over Galway but need to see more and Galway hard know with them too. So it's advantage ulster so far imo.

I agree with Bonni above and I would not write off Donegal. They were right in there to the end having conceded a lucky goal and one the reserve keeper would not be happy with. McGuinness will definitely target the Mayo match as a game he'll want a big performance from his squad.
I don't think we match up to either, physically or tactically but we'll know more next weekend.
Tyrone will have no fear, their sights set on winning the group.

Here's the thing - Mayo need to concentrate on playing to their optimum potential in the two remaining matches. Speculatve talk about degrees of difficulty is a waste of time and a clear distraction. Mayo supporters, rather than talking themselves down, should consider getting mobilised in huge numbers for these matches and let management and team panel get on with their work. They are quite a young team and deserve no less.

I am enjoying watching the Ulster teams this year, they have embraced the new rules. I hoped that Tyrone would win yesterday, for some reason I struggle to warm to McGuinness. Kerry now remain the only undefeated team but I would not put my money on them yet.

While I would regard myself as being glass half full type of person, I will be really surprised if we turn around our performance up in Omagh. This will come down to the players stepping up on Saturday night, throwing off the shackles and showing some leadership. If that happens then let's see what happens but I would not hold my breath.

@Charlie

Yeah true . The thing about the Tyrone game though is the timing there won't be any trains or buses at that hour and I don't think many Mayo people will want to drive back at that hour it's a bit of a trek to be fair.

It will say alot about this teams character if we do somehow manage to turn things around on Saturday ..I'm sure Tyrone will be thinking they only have to show up and sure who can blame them going by our current form & mood in the county .

The one thing going in our favour is that Tyrone might not be able to get up to the same level of energy v us then again they might not have to depends on what mayo team turns up .

Also our two week break might help us is well.

@Tsu thanks for that explanation. Assuming Donegal/Tyrone beat Cavan, We effectively need to win one and at least draw one to go through. Scoring difference won’t help us if we are on 2pts with Cavan.

@InExile: The most important game is Donegal.

If we win that (even with a defeat against Tyrone) we're at worst on a 3 way tie with Donegal & Cavan where Score Difference will decide it [with potentially (less likely scenarios where Cavan gets a result against either Tyrone or Donegal) through on H2H with Donegal without Score Difference].

A result against Tyrone opens up additional scenarios where we can survive with a draw in the final game or even go top & straight to a QF, but in every scenario where we make a pQF or better we need some type of result in that final game against Donegal.

A win against Tyrone on its own can (and likely would, without another Cavan shock) still see us finishing 4th with that H2H against Cavan.

To have any chance we have to beat Donegal really . But while we are Mayo and often produce the unexpected I think based on all our performances this year , ithe likelihood is wewill loose both our next 2 games and have our worst championship season in a long time.

A lot of pessimism about. We beat Tyrone and Donegal in the league so surely we can do it again. Serious questions will have to be asked about our training if we can't beat at least one of them again. We obviously got our attitude and training wrong for Cavan as we were stuck to the ground.

Thing is Clare, they won't need same level of energy to beat Mayo

I would love to see Mayo draft-in 3 or 4 of its U20 forwards, as well as midfielder Howard and half'back O"Loughlin and let them at it v Tyrone.
After all if 16 & 17yr-olds can star for Barcelona FC age is not a justifiable impediment.in GAA.

If the players have any pride they will step up big time next weekend and do it for their manager. We all criticise managers but the players have to take responsibility and blame.

Very few u 20s anywhere in the country are anywhere near good enough for senior inter county football at the moment. The young Tyrone u 20 who came on yesterday is an absolutely outstanding talent though he didn’t perform great yesterday. Galway have called young Costello into their senior panel but I don’t think he has played yet and Leitrim have a couple of u 20 lads in their panel. You can get away with it a bit more in hurling such as Tipp corner forward McCarthy as there is not quite so much physical contact as football , and yes it’s definitely possible in soccer where lads are on the ground looking for a free if they’re touched.

@Tsu - much appreciated!

Ah come on, Sticks for the Reek, really? Donegal started basically a second team against us and we even struggled to beat them

@Ann - Marie

Yeah I can't see us getting a result v Donegal .

@to win just once: Not sure if I could agree with "Very few u 20s anywhere in the country are anywhere near good enough for senior inter county football".

Costello featured for Galway early in their league campaign, ironically enough seeing a couple of minutes in their convincing victory over us. McGlinchy was another u20 part of their senior panel this year but missed both senior and 20s campaigns after picking up an injury (potentially related to playing both, who knows).

Evan Crowe the last day for Cavan, putting in a great display around the middle against us, is u20. Didn't look out of place at all.

Louth have had 4 of their lads that beat us in the u20 semi featuring with the senior setup this year (for some reason young Markey the keeper tends to get dropped from discussions about their underage lads stepping up despite being their #2 all year including in that Leinster Final), at least 2 of which are still u19 (potentially more, I'd have to check to be sure).

Leitrim's 'couple' is 6, with 4 of them playing key roles in their strong performance against us & in Leitrim's recent game against Sligo (didn't see much around their Kildare display so can't comment there - and one of the 2 not featuring much recently is probably the pick of the bunch in Honeyman but again suffering with injury. Once again, potentially related). Their u20s among their most consistent performers this year (Cox in the corner the pick of the bunch, who hardly got a sniff against our 20s, with McNamara at corner back not far behind, who got a fair roasting against our 20s). Slight aside, but the man of the match in our game against them was another lad just out of 20s last year.

Roarty up in Donegal probably the outstanding u20 playing senior this year, imho at least. His chasing and harrying the last day was exemplary. Though to be fair he does look closer to 29 than just gone 19, fair lump of a lad.

McElholm didn't feature much in the brief cameo against Donegal but was outstanding in a similar cameo against Armagh. Looked electric that night.

The likes of McCullagh for Tyrone or Murphy, Kennedy, Kirby & Dennehy from Kerry (a couple of those possibly among the names being mentioned with possible trips to the AFL in the coming months) would be very close to featuring in what would be two of the stronger panels in the country. Plenty of reason not to rush some lads, be they mental or physical pressures, but lots of underage talent around the country (& within this county) that's absolute good enough for senior county football at the moment.

Anne-Marie Celtic started their second team in the League against Aberdeen as they already had the League won and beat Aberdeen 5-1. They were trying to win the treble in the cup final with their first team and lost on penalties to Aberdeen.

@ TsuDhoNim you may be the only poster here who is fully sane haha

TsuDho, I know a few of the u-20's in the mix, and they readily agree the step up in physicality and pressure in possession is a huge challenge for them. If introduced too early, they are in danger of losing confidence as they just don't have the required natural physical development - not to be conflated with bulk aquired in a gym, as the skeletal frame still requires age to develop.

@Charlie: Yup.

I'd not bring in a single u20 to the Mayo setup currently. The morale & atmosphere around the camp, the pressure on the upcoming games and general mood of the crowd wouldn't be at all conducive to young lads developing. Before ever going into the physicality (where I'd only have 3 close to that level yet, and 1 of those that wouldn't be considered in the mix).

There's a huge step from what's mentioned there to "Very few u 20s anywhere in the country are anywhere near good enough for senior inter county football at the moment". Chalk and cheese stuff.

I think unless we win the next two games in the group & finish first , it’s all irrelevant for Mayo anyway. The effort required to beat Donegal will be absolutely massive & even if they somehow did it , Mayo will be back in the exact same scenario as last year where they have to try & lift themselves for a knockout a week later .

[Deleted].

Long ball - you asked a bit earlier on why all your comments were going into moderation. The answer was that I had a suspicion about you. Thanks for confirming this in your most recent and final comment here, which I've now deleted. Goodbye.

Is the mayo/ Tyrone match on tv

@Craggy boglands: It's being streamed on GAA+, if that counts.

It's live on GAA+, Craggy.

It’s on GAA+ Craggy.

Ok thanks.

Anne Marie - 11 of Donegals second team started yesterday. Michael Langan also played half the game for the second team.

TauDhoNim I have to bow to your superior knowledge there no doubt regards u 20 lads on senior panels Having said that I don’t think it’s a great idea promoting u 20 lads into senior teams towards the end of a campaign. And I still think you have to be an exceptional u 20 talent to make an impression with a senior inter county team. There are a number of very good u 20s in Mayo and I expect them to contribute handsomely to our chances in years ahead but I do think there’s no great point rushing them in and as you said the environment needs to be right for them when they come in

Yes I agree “Just a thought”, I think that’s correct, and important to point out the facts! let’s get behind our lads and management team for the next few weeks! Get well soon Kevin, a gentleman.

I understand Meath brought their best u20 player into their training squad, he was out of his depth.
Perhaps in the last 10 minutes when all are tired.

Leave the U20s be. A few weeks ago I was thinking, some of these lads could be an addition. If only for a few minutes at the end of a game. Definitely not now when the arse has fallen out of our year. We can’t expect 18/19 year old lads to bail us out. We have lads hanging around the panel for years and still not trusted to do a job.

We have some very talented U20s, especially forwards and good fielders. like Howard and O'Loughlin, who would probably improve our current squad. But there is no point in bringing them at this late stage, especially considering where we are now and the pressure we are under. We have to stick with what we have. Introduce these lads in next year's league. Whether U20s are able for the step up to Senior depends on each individual, their physique, rate of development etc. At that age, a year makes a big difference, and, in my opinion, the GAA made a right balls of it, when they changed from U21 to U20, as U21 was a much more natural stepping stone to Senior. Ditto re. changing the Minor to U17.

Can't see more than 1-2k Mayo people travel to Omagh.
Just for the record, thats a reflection of the lack of support, that's a result of the players lack of effort against Cavan.

The low crowd against Cavan was a result of the poor quality of football all season.

People aren't blind, the football we play is poor to watch, while the rest of the country are playing a much better style.

As for throwing in forwards from U20's at this stage, we don't pick more than 2-3 natural forwards per match and don't have room on the bench for more.
Also, 99% of the watching public can't figure out Mayos game plan, so it's unlikely a young lad thrown in now will figure it out in a week

Mayo to draw with Tyrone. Donegal to beat Cavan by 6-8 points.

It's true that after Mayo's defeat to Cavan in 1948, Mayo would go on to win 2 All-Irelands in 1950 and1951. Weeks after Cavan's last All-Ireland victory in 1952, Cavan's captain, John Joe Reilly, passed this life at the tender age of 34. Cavan and Mayo have not won the All-Ireland since his passing. If Mayo take on the Cavan omen and you cross the Shannon with Sam, don't forget to say a little prayer for John Joe, as he once crossed the Atlantic with the same Sam McGuire cup in 1947. In 1997, 25,000 Cavan fans welcomed home the Anglo Celt cup, after an absence of 28 years. This was the same Anglo Celt cup that John Joe Reilly held 11 times. In 1948, John Joe Reilly lifted the Sam McGuire over his head in Dublin against Mayo, so the omens are good for Mayo. Maybe Mayo will soon win another 2 All-Irelands.

Hard see it mayoforsam2030

@Cavan in blue welcome.

Sad to say Mayo are miles off an Ireland at the minute anyways.

@ Cavan in Blue, hope to god your right. Best of luck for the rest of the Series. Ye have a decent outfit with a few lads to come back in.