Good piece WJ, it would take a good mind to weigh it all up that's for sure. I suppose alot of supporters including myself was thinking we would beat Cavan comfortably really but by God it shows ya a team can catch you if you're not there mentally and physically as mayo were most definitely not., even Cavan no disrespect to them I'm sure were surprised how easy it was for them. I saw at least 10 times they just had 2 or 3 men running on the shoulder at ease through the defence...and the right wing took a pounding altogether with nice pop passes into the Cavan ff line...why didn't mayo do that?

Anyway, onto Tyrone. ..who i think will have a big say yet this summer..can't see it based on anything. We could see a huge mayo performance but for that, we'd need Tyrone to be off it, and either goals or lots of two pointers which we dont get too many of either..so I'm pessimistic unfortunately.

Mayo could be up for the battle.They will have to be against Tyrone

I don’t have any idea why anyone would think we would beat Cavan comfortably after the dire displays against Sligo and Leitrim .very well written piece Willie joe as was billy joe paddens .i am actually lost for words at Kevin mcstays ridiculous comments after the game .He was long enough involved in the media not to be caught like a rabbit in the lights which appears to throw the blame on the players

It's very hard to see what will change now.I fear the players and perhaps even the management just want it over....Longford in 2010 was like that.Its like that now too.
Where to from here I don't know.
McGuinnesses aura comes from winning.....it didn't work for him in professional soccer....if he doesn't do it this year that aura will slip.....he might do it though and if he does the aura will only grow.
I always felt Kevin was just from era of football where being on the County team was about pulling Wemon in The Beaten Path......not winning title's he said as much in his book...he also spoke about being offered ded in Roscommon when Jim Gavin didn't acknowledge him.....why??.
He is a great Mayo man and seen him in Phibsboro the morning g after 2021 final and as dejected a man you never seen....but still it about winning
The "kicking the ball into OShea"thingis the most peculiar of all.....we have never done it under any management.
I have heard Colm Boyle complaining about it but it didn't happen with any consistency back when he was playing either.

Well now 1985, the performance v galway gave people hope, and it was Cavan in Castlebar so I'd say alot of supporters expected a win handy enough., but you just never know with Mayo, as I was saying we dont have the players however ..one would say the forwards but it's actually every line of the field.

The most maddening thing is that everyone - from supporters here to ex players etc - can see what is wrong with our style of play except the management.
Even if they looked back at our second half performance against Armagh and compared that to the other rubbish we are playing all year - they would surely be convinced to change.
Cavan completely outsmarted and out played us on Sunday.

Could be 5 or 6 years im thinking, judging on what I've saw and the under 20s. The likes of kobe, hurleys who are younger again to make mayo a top side again and ready to compete. You can say a team can come from anywhere and win like Armagh last year but you still need quality players all over to do it.

I actually think your Longford analogy was very apt, WJ. Yes there is an obvious difference in the quality of Longford and Cavan but the stage of this management era and what has happened in the proceeding years is so similar in feeling to 2007 - 2010. No obvious style of play, players playing out of position. Players not showing real belief in what their doing. Inconsistent performances week to week, even if results up to last weekend weren't awful.

Tough on McStay to be compared with McGuinness as no, only maybe Jim Gavin, compare to him. Mayo just need a consistent, believable, and inspiring voice to lead them.

The more I look at how exposed our defence is, the more I see Canavan, McCurry and Co play havoc above..they have Kilpatrick and Kennedy too in the middle, 2 big athletic units, Hampsey back into a strong defence and a few of the all ireland winning 20s like mcelholm ..they are dangerous side. Who should really have beaten Armagh..will be interesting to see how the Donegal Tyrone game goes on sat next.

@ long ball I know what you are saying but they surely had to lift it against Galway in front of a huge crowd but ultimately they didn’t know how to win the game when it was there for the taking and we reverted to type again on Sunday

Ara that's it 1985, I know they were always going to put it up to Galway but jesus how were they so bad Sunday..like I keep banging on about not having the players etc and they don't imo..but the effort, so far off the pace..midfield and backs beat up a stick..hard fathom.

Nah, I think the Longford analogy was spot on.

That said, I feel bad for Cavan that the focus has been on our implosion rather than their exploiting of it.

Mgmt should sit down a watch the dubs 2nd half against Galway. No massive players up front but they win their own ball as it is kicked in quickly in front of them with runners coming so they can turn and take on their man or lay it off…. We can do that….we have done it….. we did it year one….. Dublin didn’t bother with 2 pointer shots even with the wind….
Listening to mid west we hear….plays it back….recycles….lays it’s off…turns back….
The likes of Ryan, Neary, Tommy, would love that fast ball scenario.
The stat that killed us was the scores from play from our starting forwards…. It’s gone beyond pathetic at this stage.
We were predictable in 2021, we are worse now so the only option available to save any credit now is to go for it against Tyrone and change it up… we all know deep down it won’t happen, we know changes are needed but we know that’s a chat for another day too…

Can we please somehow get an honest grown up conversation going about James Horan's comment in this article? Whether through the Mayo News pod WJ or a forum at county board level?

The senior team, players and management are just the tip of the iceberg and are a result of the structures beneath! If these gaping issues aren't resolved we might as well resign ourselves to another long barren spell of absolute mediocrity. As James says, why isn't there more noise about this?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41635828.html

Newbridge 2018 springs to my mind and they are now in the tailteann cup. A place we could end up if this continues. Personally I believe this is more of a joint management. I've believed it from the word go. Kevin's excuses are wearing very thin. We brought in a forward s coach... no evidence whatsoever that he has made a difference. Cavan bet us off the pitch for most of the game. We were wide open at the back. Moving mcbrien out to 6 has not worked. It would be a brave man that could name the starting 15 for Tyrone. I'd say the management don't even know.

I posted earlier regarding this and perhaps it was phrased clumsy or inappropriate timing. I'll rephrase. To my mind the article by James Horan on our current structures surely has to be taken seriously.

Perhaps its a conversation for when our season finishes but we're already being overtaken by other counties who have their house in order in terms of facilities, coaching and pathways. Relying on a golden generation coming along once in a blue moon isn't going to cut it anymore. The supporters and clubs deserve more.

Im not sure how this conversation or movement gets started but the future is bright if we make the right decisions now.

Great read Willie Joe and I agree with a lot of the analysis. Some people saying we have the players and some saying we don't. The best analysis is that we don't know whether we have or not. Anyone looking at Donegal a few years ago would say that they didn't have the players but now with practically the same players they have won 2 Ulsters which is as hard to win as Sam. Donegal can bring in 4 or 5 subs and they fit in immediately as they know what they have to do. Same as the Dubs under Jim Gavin. Hopefully we give it a lash and try something new and take off the shackles and sting Tyrone like a dying wasp. I would be pleased if we cut loose and get to the quarter finals and anything after that is a bonus. Surely Mgt will try something new or am I being naïve in thinking so. After all both of them managed All Ireland winning club teams so they must know plenty about football.

First off management's time is up and they should have been removed after the Derry game last year.
The county boards review was an absolute circus.Players filling out questionnaires.
Amateur hour all round.
I spoke to one starter from the team last October that wanted out.Told me they were going nowhere with Rochfords style of football.
It's all about percentages and boring the opposition and our own fans to death.
Can only hope now that the players have a bit of pride in themselves and go out and give it a right go against Tyrone and Donegal.
I cannot understand how Kevin McStay who's supposed to be a very intelligent man has allowed his tenure to turn into this.For God's sake Kevin take control of your team and take the snagging handbrake off and let the lads at it.
Pump high ball in on Aido and Frank Irwin with Towey feeding off them.
Rod and Boland for 2 pointers and good ball into the lads on the hf line.
Hession Durcan and Eoghan Mc Loughlin hb line to attack at every opportunity.
Your reign is about to go down as one the worst in Mayo history Kevin.
Go full chaos mode it can't be any worse than the shite ye have served up the last 2 years

I'm still hurting after Sunday. I can take losing, but the pride and excitement the Mayo team has brought for so long being lost is something to grief over.

We don't have a panel to win an All Ireland but we do have a top group of lads capable of better. Much better.

They owe it to us and to themselves to turn up in Omagh.

And I agree with everything you say Horanshat. Don't go out wondering. What appears to be a disinterest among management on the line has spread to the team. Have they given up? Fallen out? There is no presence or leadership there now. Even Kevin's bizarre soundbites were said in a tone that sounded factual and didn't carry the usual tone of ghostly disappointment that he showed after Galway.

I cannot think of a worse management since Jack O'Shea. Kevin wanted the job so long. Surely he wants to go out fighting.

Those stupid statements you mentioned WJ and the constant talk of the “group “ after the CF loss, leads me to think he’s shoving the blame onto the team. Just like O Rourke preaching from on high about other people’s failures and then when both got the chance, they couldn’t hack it. I don’t ever remember him sticking up for his players after any match. Even when bad decisions went against us, he licked up to the ref.

@Tom Thumb…I agree completely. I’d urge all Mayo supporters to read the article, but Horan is just saying what lots of us have been saying for years. I have also previously raised why there’s not been much light cast on these glaringly obvious issues on pods or in Mayo media because they are the root cause of our failures and hugely detrimental to our chances of success. Far more important, in my opinion, than discussing the malaise of our current senior team which you rightly said is just the tip of the ice berg

Enda McGearty on the most recent Ah Ref pod, in fairness to him, flagged the issues with Mayo football lie primarily with the Co Board. He’s correct. We are literally going on and on about this for over a decade. It’s so disheartening and pathetic that nothing has changed. In fact, it’s gotten worse. Horan questions why there’s not more ‘heat’ about it in Mayo?? Why has there not been more focus on this and pressure for change?

It was also refreshing but also frustrating to hear John Stagg comment on the same pod that maybe winning at underage actually is important. I’m sick of hearing about underage being ‘development’ and I said a few times here over the past few days that there was far too much acceptance of our u20 defeat. And I don’t mean any slight on the players. Not one bit. Personally, I was far more disappointed about that loss than the seniors losing to Cavan (cos it’s clear that’s been going nowhere for some time). Whereas, we had a u20 panel that should have beaten Louth and we didn’t. Surely to God, actually winning things has some positives!? We talk about talent coming through…but not a medal between any one of them. Not one. There’s unfair pressure being applied to these young fellas. We need to start teaching our younger footballers how to win.

There are other counties way ahead of us in underage and overall structures As James Horan said, we are being left behind. Our period of relative success at senior level from 2011-17 was built on having dominated Connacht at u21 level the 2nd half of the previous decade. Did anyone at Co Board level ever think, maybe we could do our utmost to put structures in place at underage and schools to maximise our chances of actually winning some minor and u20 All Irelands? We all know it doesn’t guarantee success at senior but c’mon, it’s got to be a hell of a lot better than the constant losing.

This is the topic Mayo fans should be discussing. Not who lines out in Omagh.

No COE. F@ck all training facilities. A financial shambles/debt. No coherent plan or structure. Zero leadership. Bad decision making in terms of managerial decisions. We get waffle thrown at us every year by the Co Board after we exit championship and it’s all just a big heap of…(fill in the blanks). Until the right people are at the top of Mayo GAA we will continue to fail.

I am looking to the Tyrone game with far more hope than confidence. I would love to see us, somehow, get at least a draw, to keep our hopes alive until the Donegal game. I am still furious after Sunday's game. We can talk ad nausea about structure, style of play, organisation', tactics etc, which is dictated by the management. But what should be a given, a non negotiable, is that when a team steps on to a pitch, in the green and red jerseys, in a championship match, especially in McHale Park, they should play with pride, passion and intensity, from start to finish. You need to put the opposition on the back foot straight away. As an Irish rugby international(can't remember who) once said in the dressing room before a game at Lansdowne Rd, "they are expecting us to tear into them from the start-we'll let's not f#&king disappoint them". We did the opposite against Cavan and let them get on the front foot. All this after our usual pretty intense pre-match warm up-if we showed half that intensity starting the game, we might have done better. And don't give me any nonsense about motivation or psychology. You should'nt need any extra motivation when you pull on that jersey to represent Mayo-I would have given anything to have got that opportunity and honour. Win or lose, I want to see us dying with our boots on against Tyrone.

I've thought for some time KmS wanted to keep his punditry options open with his safe and sanitised post-match words. I've never been convinced he was anyway invested in the gig he so craved in earlier yrs. I honestly think it's a classic case of "be careful what you wish for".
As for his future replacement, best to look within IMO. The aura around McGuiness has no substance if the hard facts are analysed. Yes, he won one as both manager and player but he hasn't done it twice. He'll most likely be close this campaign, granted.
In 2014 he was so focused on beating Dublin he forgot all about Kerry. I don't like Brolly, not one bit, but I do agree with his summation of the guru-like status McGuiness has cleverly engineered for himself... Jesus in a tracksuit.
Give the job to a young Mayo man and stick with him... it'll take time.

Agree with pretty much all of that Willie Joe and with James Horan and Billy Joe too mostly. However looking at our performances this year and concluding that we just don't have the tools is accepting that all the selections were correct and the issue with style of play has nothing to do with management and coaching. You're right about Kevin's post match rambling but that's been the same all season and I think he's accepted that although we're not gone yet we are in the departure lounge. It won't necessarily take many years to put things right as Maughan and Horan have shown in the past but if as seems likely McStay walks at the end of the season it's imperative to get the next management setup right.

I was looking at the Mayo squad from 2023. What is obvious from that comparison is that Mayo have lost a huge amount of players.
Most of those players didn't retire as they aren't that old.

We are essentially operating like a div3 team when it comes to retaining players.

There are two reasons for this, players left because they lost fate in the management or, we have had a large influx of young talent pushing them out.

This season, Mayo used the smallest no of players in Div1. You don't do that if you have a large group of new young players pushing senior lads out of the squad.

Mayo went into transition from the 2011-2019 group in 2020. A lot of the players brought through then, are not playing now.

Often, when players walk away, they leave for three reasons
(1) A better opportunity arose (Oisin Mullin, Lee Keegan)
(2) Time caught up with them (Jason Doherty, David Clarke, Kevin McLaughlin)
(3) They have lost the belief that the commitment demanded will be rewarded by results/game time - the list of players in this category is extensive (James Carr, Cillian O Connor, Padraig O Hora etc)

The reason Jim McGuiness is able to galvanise a previously under performing county (similar to Micko Dwyer, Jim Gavin, John O Mahony (excluding 2nd Mayo spell)) and drive them on to great things, is simple.

You have to convince all the players who don't believe the commitment is worth it, to believe the opposite.
That lifts the standard in the squad and pushes the team to new heights.

This is why new managers often get their best results in season 1/2, before trailing off again. Those players who need convincing often pack it in again when the results or playing time didn't materialise.

This is where Mayo are now and the only way to get back to where we were in 2023 is change at management level.

The bigger picture of the type of players Mayo have and their suitability to the modern game is a long term fix starting at underage level. For 50 years (post 1951) we have focused on developing midfielders. This changed to half backs in the last 20 years.

Even if we got a Jim McGuiness type guy into manage the county, we don't have 4 Highfielding club midfielders and 3/4 half forwards, who can kick long range scores and accurate long kick passes, ready and waiting.

Saw Jim McGuinness there all right and hadn’t expected that - I wonder what was going through his mind after !! Cavan are well able to upset the odds against Tyrone especially if their first choice players are available. I think Mayo will give it a go in Omagh as they’ve nothing to lose and a bit of pride to gain. As far as McStays comments about the players not obeying instructions as such, I think maybe there are two many of the back room giving instructions and this may be where the will I won’t I comes in. Also the style of play is similar across all grades in Mayo and even at club level it’s very much defensive play. Just one observation from Sunday illustrates this ,when Cavan were pressing going forward they were fully inside the opposing 45m line . Mayo in similar situations had usually 5 players across centre field with no one to mark so obviously Aido and Ryan were being outnumbered 3:1 regularly in that situation.
I have a feeling they’ll throw caution to the wind and give it hell in Omagh. Longer term well who knows, 1993 hammered by Cork yet all Ireland final 1996, Longford 2010 and final v Donegal 2012. The highs and lows of it all.

For people making the argument that complacency was our downfalling against Cavan then for the Tyrone game the total opposite applies. Here our motivation and abilities will be tested to the limits. Doesn't matter whether we 'believe' or not the question is does this group really 'want' to progress and I mean that respectfully as the fate of this competition is still in our own hands to an extent. I can see how this game got away from us as by half time we were 3 up totally against the run of play and we probably figured in the 2nd half we'll pull away eventually without much effort expended. So Tyrone is a real test now to both our motivation and ability. Because of our poor finishing record we'll need to go all in from the word go and be out of sight with 10 minutes to go.

The harsh reality is that anyone of Ray Dempsey, Mike Solan or Declan Shaw would have done a better job then this management team. Their backroom teams alone would bring more innovation to the table.

What I would love to know is what actually goes on in this 7 man/woman interview committee. I spoke to a man few weeks ago who is extremely high up in one of the big Irish banks. And he’s mad about football too. Not from mayo. I explained the 5 man committee process to him and he was lost for words. Basically said it was a process for people to cover their own backs and not take responsibility for decisions. He’s 100% right. Seamus Toughy can blame the rest of the committee for the advice he got on selecting a manager and vice verse. There is zero accountability within the CB and the sooner the top table is gone the better.

How in gods name we decided to give these men a 4 year term with no consultation with players is just a joke. Yes players can’t call the shots but they need to be listened to. Bad manger selection, lack of development of underage structures, no centre of excellence,, phantom debt and an investigation by the revenue, I think it’s fair to say that this chairman and his buddies are single handily the worst group of people to ever run a county board. Is there anyway the delegates can do a clean sweep of the whole top table? And get proper businessmen in running the board with high football IQ.

As for the management, I just pray that Tyrone and Donegal do the generous thing and beat us well in both games. Can’t believe as a mayo man I’m saying it. But this needs to stop right now. We need a brand new fresh direction on the sideline. An opportunity we had 3 years ago when the job was far more appealing, but our wise chairman had different ideas.

I believe that we took our eyes off Cavan and done some heavy training to Tyrone and Donegal,it was a mistake for sure,but I don't believe that the management have lost the dressing room,they certainly had not ago Galway,if are to have any chance of progressing I think that we need to reach out to the only player who can improve us at this stage,COC,I don't know the problem but surely with goodwill they can manage to get him back on the team,I think that we will see a different performance against Tyrone.after the season is over we need a complete investigation into the county board and it's governance,James Horan has highlighted it,and also J P Kean a great servant of Matt football is very concerned about it

Glasagusdearg. Agree with all that but Sunday reminded me of sitting in Croke Park at the 1997 Final against Kerry and we were stuck to the ground and yards off Kerry. Subsequently we heard that Mayo had a pretty hard training session in Maynooth College on the day before. So maybe we got our s&c wrong for Cavan and no matter how hard we tried or wanted to try the legs and body wouldn't take us there. Cavan were faster than us in everything and we were so lethargic. That was very noticeable to me.

@Green&Red - we have to be very careful we don't go the direction of Meath or Cork did a decade or two ago. Because if you start to drop back you can see how long to takes to rebuild.

The lack of training facilities is scandalous.
Scratching around for pitches to train on is ridiculous. Same for the U20's as well I believe.

Getting the basics right will get you a long way.

Clubs in Mayo are leading the way again. Fantastic developments and improvements being made with new lands bought up for new training pitches and astro pitches, The Neale, Kilmaine, Ballinrobe, Hollymount, Westport all spring to mind with current ongoing developments in the pipeline or under construction. The likes of claremorris have fantastic training pitches, look at the Garrymore club and how well that’s kept.

All this is being done despite the levies on MacHale Park debt. As far as I can see the right people are not involved at county board level but then again is anyone willing to put their hand up or is it a closed shop? It’s who you know etc etc….dont rock the boat.

@Mayonaze Fully agree. Need to start at the top here. County Board has the most to answer for. If they had stood up over the winter we may have a very different management team. More importantly the infrastructure should be the focus to ensure we have a Centre of Excellence and constant improvement to Mc Hale park and grass roots facilities.
It a conversation that needs to be had after the season ends. If nothing changes, nothing changes.
We may have a kick in the mule yet but overall we are not heading in the right direction.

The CB is voted in by the clubs.
Perhaps when we are waiting for improved facilities some clubs could give a few nights for a week or 2 to the county team in an organized fashion.
The display last Sunday reminds me of a club team fulfilling a league fixture the week after being knocked out of the championship.

There is no managerial vacancy yet. . But if there was, I wonder if an IQ test for the ability to remain objective in the white heat of battle and solve problems that might arise during real game time, might be an idea ?. Plenty of big Ego's out there, maybe some of us Mayo supporters are in some way complicit in this big Ego thing that in my opinion exists in and around the county board and some of the possible managerial candidates spoken about, because some of us, myself included are or have been too inclined to put those people on too high of a pedestal . Not just in Mayo but very many in the GAA seem to be high on their own Ego's, and some have had great success. But the game is and has been evolving . The likes of Jim Gavin, John Kiely, Mickey Harte or Eamonn Fitzmaurice never struck me as Ego trippers, but men who remain objective problem solvers in real time where intelligence wins out and appropriate changes made. Have any of ye ever noticed just how quickly Eamonn Fitzmaurice spots a problem on the field and suggests a change in terms of personnel, position or tactics, when doing co-commentary on RTE? very impressive. and 9 times out of every 10 after the match, in hindsight, Eamonn Fitzmaurice seems to have been right. Mind you I think that in the future both in hurling and football , real intelligence rather than Ego or the Egos of those picking the manager should be the most important prerequisite. Will it be so for our next managerial appointment when ever that happens?

Galway County Board made 730, 000 surplus last year, and I think they owed just over a million in debt. https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41528996.html
Mayo County board made 78,000 last year, down from 776,000 year before, but have a debt of 5.3 million to service https://www.mayonews.ie/news/gaa/1684459/new-mayo-gaa-vice-chairman-says-county-board-will-not-burden-clubs-with-any-additional-debt.html
This first issue I sort, we need help from outside on this. Not fair clubs been burdened by more county board tickets, need a centre of excellence around castlebar area, or somewhere around middle of County, and Bohola free so that also around middle of county. Have to look around at counties Tyrone, win numerous Ulster Titles, and win fair share of All-Irelands at all age groups, have a\ really good GAA Centre at Garvaghey for county teams. And pretty sure debt free on this as well.
We not giving our player a fair platform to perform on. And I not sure volunteers in Mayo GAA have the skill set to run a multi million business, like Mayo GAA.

TYRONE - The Garvaghey Centre
MONAGHAN - training facility at Cloghan as it is situated just off the N2 Castleblayney bypass.
Fermanagh - THE Lissan complex
DONEGAL - GAA centres as the Convoy project
ARMAGH - have two separate training facilities in development in different parts of the county.
ANTRIM - training facility on the Ballymena Road
DOWN - I think has planning permission for one
DERRY’S - Owenbeg facility

There are more, Sligo, Leitrim etc, we now one of the exceptions in not having a centre of excellence. Hard to be a top table if bringing ham sandwiches, no matter who managing

Cavan's win over Mayo in Castlebar is no shock or poor reflection on Mayo football, as Cavan is a very proud footballing county. Cavan are the holders of 5 All-Irelands and 40 Ulster titles and Cavan is the only county to win All-Irelands on both sides of the Atlantic. Some of the greatest footballers ever to play gaelic football, wore the blue jersey of Cavan.

For Cavan to win this year's Ulster Championship, they would have had to beat three Division 1 teams in a row, one of which were the All-Ireland champions, Armagh. Last year, Cavan would have had to beat four Division 1 teams in a row to win the Ulster championship. Ulster is not an easy province to play in, as in Munster, Kerry have no Division 1 opposition to play against.

Mayo have a great manager in Kevin McStay. He knows football like no other. Mayo have a young developing squad of players, who are only going to get stronger, game on game. It is not fair to criticize any Mayo footballer, as they give so much of their lives to the green and red.

Best of success to Cavan and Mayo, from a lifelong Cavan supporter who lives in beautiful west Mayo.

If and when a new manager is being considered, perhaps Pay Gilroy would be the best for the job. He transformed Dublin football and left an excellent platform for Gavin to work with. And speaking of ego, not risk of it with Pat. Went as a water boy two years ago to help out and win another all Ireland. Personally I think he or Micky Harte would be the two best outside men to take over (if anything happens). We still have another year on the contract!!!!

Question to the floor - do we have a strategy for Mayo GAA. Let me elaborate - a written document that set out what we are going to do, how we are going to it, who does it and by what date.

But who will replace CB members , I read about all the platforms calling for change , I’m not saying I disagree (what I say counts for nothing , a mayo supporter living away from home all his adult life and never did anything for the cause & id hazard a guess there are a lot of us in the same boat ) but my point still stands who do you replace the men who have been there all the time with .

Would James Horan become an executive member of the CB for example ? Very little reward in it from what I can gather .

We absolutely need fresh ideas & fresh faces but are they there and are they willing more to the point ?

It would be the most Mayo thing ever, to go and beat Tyrone. Mayo seem to play better when their backs are to the wall. All the pressure seems to come off, when they are underdogs.

Hill 16, your not wrong, would be the most Mayo thing to do. two years ago went down to Killarney, beat Kerry who hadn't lost a championship match there in I don't know how long, played Louth few weeks later, in Castlebar, and very lucky to win it. And played Cork few weeks later and lost to them, finishing 3rd in group.

enigma of Mayo GAA

@Hill16

God I can only hope so as if we go out let's go out with some pride .

Donegal's squad depth will be tested when they encounter Tyrone. I'd fancy Mayo to squeeze a result against them, but not so upbeat when it comes to Omagh.

@Ever the optimist

If Donegal beat Tyrone & Cavan they might rest players when they face us .
Just in omagh there will be barely any mayo support with the time and the guys confidence will be low as it is .

Cavan could beat whoever they meeting next .That would throw the cat among the pigeons

Donegal and Armagh to draw , a lot of possibilities out there

What did we expect, our number 1 Coach brought Donegal down to the same level we are at now. Donegal got rid of him and won Ulster in first year with new Management team and same players. Time for major change in GAA in Mayo both at County Board and Management level. Keep The Faith just change all the boys at the top.

@Helen Mc Namee! As someone who's first adult job away from home was an 8 month stint in Cavan I can certainly concur that ye love ye're 'footbull' and are every bit as passionate about the game as we are ourselves so although I always hate to see my county losing I certainly did not begrudge ye that win on Sunday and wish ye the best going forward.
The Cavan people often told me how much they enjoyed the Mayo style play...when we had a ''style'' that is.
As you say ye play in a tough province with a lot of big hitters at the moment but who knows, bigger days could be just around the corner, it's amazing how far a bit of self belief and 'buy in' can take you.

What Horan was saying was absolute nonsense. For too long we’ve pampered to the media figures in mayo gaa circles and taken their word for gospel. There’s a serious group of guys there now who are 100% committed to the cause and that starts with Tyrone in 2 weeks time. We have to get behind our lads!

@Helen Mc Namee

Congrats on your win and I also certainly did not begrudge you . It was a total shock in the GAA community though and everyone was shocked outside of mayo also. That's not to say your not a great footballing county .

I have to disagree with you on saying we have a great manager though that is our main problem .
I won't go on about him again as we've all laid our feelings out on that topic as it is .

@Culmore 100% agree .

Yes, plenty of permutations to wade through. If, and IMO, it's a big if, Cavan turn Donegal over, it'll be gloves off and I'd have to pip them in a heated battle against the green and red. Optimal result for me would be Donegal beating both Tyrone and Cavan and being absolutely knackered for the last match, but it's too presumptive to even go there.

I note from reading the roundup on the Dublin club games last night that a lot of the county players played, niall scully, Luke breathnach etc all in action. Doesn't seem to be doing them boys much harm

Ever the optimist...

That scenario would only work in our favour if we got a result in omagh, even if as I suspect donegal win their first 2 games and put out a 2nd string on the last day, cavan would still have us on the head to head. Would be counting on cavan to do us a huge favour v tyrone

I mean,it's all possible, but would need a number of surprise results to happen

@SouthMaighEo: Care to explain what you mean there? It makes no sense to me whatsoever.

Horan said the result put us in a tight spot (factual), McStay will get a lot of heat (factual), players will get a lot of heat (factual) and that Mayo’s structures are farcical for an intercounty setup (factual).

I'd be really interested to know part you consider nonsense from that.

We can’t trust the current county board. Like I said, they have a tendency every year shortly after we fall from championship to fire out some PR bull. I stopped believing them a few years ago. Anyone who believes them is foolish.

Mayo need new faces, new voices. A total clear out. It starts with the clubs. Mayo supporters need to put pressure on club delegates to demand change. The evidence is there, plain to see for years, that the individuals at executive level of our Co Board are detrimental to the progress of Mayo football. It’s not even up for debate anymore.

Like Sean I don’t live in Mayo but I’d most definitely get involved if I was.

@TsuDhoNim…I’d echo your queries there. @SouthMaighEo, what did Horan say that was absolute nonsense?

Can go thru as many scenario as you want, need to play better, and play with more energy for longer in games. And play to a tactical game that suits us . And if that win the next two games then great, if not then review everything at end of season.
But must show some pride,

@SouthMaigheo I applaud your enthusiasm to get behind the lads but what have you been watching all year and the two previous ones. I admit to wearing Green and Red tinted shades for the majority of my time but even now I have to admit there is a serious problem with the setup, management etc.
If Cillian O Connor steps away, jeopardising his crown as the all time scorer in his potential last couple of years, not to mention the chance of a Celtic cross something is off. The only thing we have done consistently is fall short, try to hold possession and not take chances when they were presented. I am a big fan of Mc Stay and Rochford and was delighted when they got the gig, but lets call a spade a spade here. No buy in from the players, fans walking away and head scratching calls on the line.
I hope I am eating my words in a few weeks time, we need a huge reaction now. Keep the Faith

@Superrmac, that's correct, I know. Just clutching at straws tbh. Sad thing is I can see a result in the offing in the Donegal game....will it be too little too late?... probably.

It looks as if thing are not right in the camp.
How could things have changed so much since the CF?

Corrick. With respect your living in a world of dillusion. Any man that comes out backing this management fiasco at this stage has to be deluded. As for the return of cillian. For god sake the lad is 33. Hasn't kicked competitive football for months. For me it's more about who mcstay should be leaving behind going to Tyrone.

Did someone say a group of lads that are 100% committed to the cause? Obviously wasn't in McHale Park on Sunday or is in denial. In his interview Kevin McStay seemed totally unmotivated and if that's the case how can he motivate the players. Fed up watching this slow boring death by a thousand cuts and can't wait for club championship. At least those lads will be 100% committed.

It is wonderful to have so many self proclamed experts among our posters. I presume we must all think none of our players ever hear of the sort of comments about them that are regularly spewed out here. Such arrogance. Such obvious under estimate of a great footballing county as Cavan.
May I also ask that people refrain from using the name of 'Jesus ' to supposedly hammer home some idiotic pearl of self inflated wisdom.
Also we do not need snarling men on the pitch as some posters seem to favour. This is a sporting game observed by children and young people.
The game of gaelic football is far far above any such reminiscent.

Such deminishment

Mayo man in down. I think most of the comments from the lads on here were more damning on the management.. not the players and rightly so. Even the good man martin carney was gone berserk on midwest radio. It's taken time but finally people have woken up

That’s a new word on me, Mayoman in down!

@Mayoman in down, sorry if my comment was offensive to you.

This season is probably finished for us, but I want to see us go down fighting, while still hoping for a miracle. A win or draw against Tyrone could turn our season around. What is clear now is that we are falling way behind a lot of counties in player development,facilities etc. We need to grasp the nettle and address this head on. We don't appear to have anybody with vision in the County Board. We need a complete root and branch overall review of Mayo football. I would love to see the appointment of Strategic Executive, Guru, Tsar or any other title, who would be given overall responsibility for the future improvement and development of Mayo football, including facilities, structure, organization, coaching and player development. I think that James Horan, if he was interested, would be Ideal-a meticulous, forensic man with vision, who would probably relish the challenge and meet it full on. One can only hope and pray.

Some people are obviously spending too much time in the sun .The fact that Cavan are/were a great footballing county doesn’t diminish the fact that is was still a shock that a current division 2 team beat a team that topped division 1.down cork and Meath are also great football counties but haven’t been all Ireland contenders for many years.i actually saw only one poster on here who claimed we would beat Cavan by 12 points and today tells us the only way the team can now be improved is to beg cillian o Connor to come back .also the idea that a heavy training block was the cause of the total lethargy we saw on Sunday.well the management is responsible for organising the timing of those sessions and if they underestimated the opposition that is totally down to them .Also there a number of very well informed posters on this blog who provide a wealth of very useful information on here.All we can do at this stage is hope the management have the courage to change direction for the last two games as we are also a very proud football county

1985. Well said. You just missed another comment... don't think this management has lost the dressing room... most of the dressing room departed early in the year.... work commitments was the excuse.... honestly. I think that poster has been on Mars for the last 12 months. Arguably for the last 3 in my opinion.

It's amazing all the talk now about the County Board. I pointed this out a few times on here how they wouldn't pick the late great Mick O'Dwyer before James Horan was appointed and of course recently Jim McGuinness. It's all about control. So things aren't going to change much at County Board level. It's another form of politics and people might have the best intentions but they usually go with the flow. I'm not so sure our facilities are that bad and I didn't hear too much complaints from James Horan when he was manager and the team did extremely well. I'm not sure we are that far off it at the moment. Time I think will show that Cavan are a decent team and I for one thought it was a 50/50 game but obviously it was 70/30 for them on the day.

With regard to the county board... I'm not intending to throw digs at them, they are volunteering their time to run a multi million euro organization and they have the best interests of Mayo GAA at heart I'm sure. But no one can expect a group of volunteers to run an organization of that size, its ridiculous in this day and age.

Having said all that the county board looks to be like a closed shop, no visibility, no accountability. I have no idea who these people are nor am I aware of the time they dedicate to the cause. It seems they are the only stakeholders in the county that have an actual say or can voice their opinion or have a forum. Supporters, media, players are all shut out from decision making which is scandalous. Supporters have already started to vote with their feet with reduced attendances. Sponsors will follow. Players too.

If anything good is to come out of this, surely its a movement for some change in the right direction. Where does the county board come before other stakeholders and be made accountable? Where is the most recent Mayo GAA strategic plan? If we want to see Mayo GAA consistently competitive at the top level we need professional people and structures in plan to deliver that. As another contributor said, before we end up going in the direction of Meath and Cork.

Do we need to examine the Mayo psyche?

Chat to people from other counties and they immediately point fingers at heads when Mayo are discussed. Examine our performances across four grades this year and we find teams who fail when the game is there to be won, and in the case of St. Colman's in an actual final, who failed to turn up. That a pretty damning indictment - maybe James Horan is right is lamenting facilities etc, but there's more to it than that I think.

Thinking also of last year's minor semi final defeat to Armagh - this was really embarrassing; we were in it for a while and then hockeyed, and our performance on the line left much to be desired. Or take the Louth u20 semi-final. I thought this was a game tailor made for us in the psychological stakes: Mayo are experienced campaigners at this level, who contested a final not long ago, and won one not that long ago. Louth on the back of their emotional win against Meath in the senior might have been caught up in the post match celebrations and not really able to deal with the pressure of an All Ireland occasion. Well, that one didn't fly. Other examples abound.

But, let's for the moment concentrate on the next ball, and that's Tyrone in Omagh. Tyrone could well be arriving on the back of a defeat to Donegal and have only seven days to recover. Barring a draw one of those teams will be in the same position as we are come next weekend. Omagh is winnable, and I for one, am up for it.

Eyes were on Tyrone regarding training and eyes were off cavan. Probably not hard to find where to lay the blame

@Sticks for the Reek: "I’m not so sure our facilities are that bad..."

What facilities?
We quite literally don't have any beyond the stadium (& it's very considerable debt) at a county level.

"... I didn’t hear too much complaints from James Horan when he was manager"

Were you listening?
Horan came very close to walking in '12 over the issues around training facilities (https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-20210395.html).

Indulging in a bit of whataboutery here but if it's so hard for the Mayo senior football team to find a place to train, imagine what it's like for the women's team?

And if our county board wasn't dominated by people with similar political affiliations, it might just make for less of a closed shop.

@1985 the management have been very stubborn up to know when it comes to resisting change.
The new rules were so attractive that Murphy jumped out of retirement. Something similar in Comers case. And we were in a plump position in case of O Shea. But we opt to continuously go around the arc.
Tyrone and Donegal will have their homework done and unless we do change tack, we will be devourer...

TsuDhoNim. Horan stuck around for a long time after 2012 and even went back for a second term so if he seriously thought things were that bad it wasn't a game changer. Actions speak louder than words. No problem, you have your opinion and I'll have mine and isn't that the beauty of the blog that Willie Joe has set up. Maybe Horan was just deflecting things away from Mgt and the players which was very good of him. Onwards and upwards against Tyrone hopefully.

Throwing a pile of money at a 4G pitch, that isn't big enough to host a game is just utter madness. Surely there are some people involved at CB level that think that this is an utter waste of money. Yes, build a proper 4G pitch, but make sure it has the same playing dimensions as Croke Park . You couldn't make this stuff up if you tried.

James Horan left in 2014 after the county board had agreed to play the replay with kerry in limerick against his wishes

Is it true that Irish marathon record holder, Catherina McKiernan, is involved in training the Cavan gaa team - maybe a lesson there?

The defeat on Sunday is very hard to take but we can’t say that the warning signs were not there. The team just didn’t turn up for the League Final and then came the two very poor performances against Sligo and Leitrim. In good Mayo fashion we had plenty of excuses of course, from hard training to failure to adapt to the new rules amongst them. Well, we are out of excuses after that trouncing by Cavan.

We know what happened last year. Knocked out by a dismal Derry team after falling to win one big game in the championship. In the autumn we had to endure the county board review that went on for months, and it clearly produced nothing. Then of course we had a number of high profile players stepping away from the panel. Not a good year!
2023 wasn’t any better I’m afraid. Well beaten by Roscommon in Connacht and hammered out the gate by Dublin in the quarter final by 12 points.

What changed after those two terribly disappointing years and why did we expect this year to be any different? The defeat to Cavan has been in the making for a while and I don’t think anyone should be shocked by it. On Off The Ball last night, Boyler said he believes the last big win by the Mayo team was in the semi final against Dublin in 2021, and it’s hard to disagree with him. The management team and players will now have to deliver a huge performance to beat Tyrone or Donegal, and it’s very hard to see that happening when you look at our record in those big games over the last few seasons.

John Martin.
I think it’s too many athletes we have. Would prefer a few lads who are capable of kicking it over the bar from 25/30 mtrs. Or God forbid even 40.

I hate to see people complain about Horan, he brought us from nothing to contenders.

@JR

Totally agree . He also was great at picking out new guys like Ryan o D , Tommy C and others.

I'd have Horan ball over current anyday .

Its always darkest before the dawn. Write this season off. If we get any win from here on in it'll be a welcome bonus. There'll be a new management team in next year and a chance to begin afresh. Lads won't stop kicking ball in Mayo - we just need to find a proper leader to find the combination to bring it all together. Malachy Clerkin in the Irish Times felt that McStay and Mayo were overthinking things in Castlebar last Saturday. I disagree - there was no thinking on display at all.

John Martin,

A previous candidate for the Mayo job the last time had Daniel Kilgannon as one of his S&C guys. Kilgannon is Irelands leading sprint coach and I believe has trained Olympians to represent the country. A ballina man originally I believe. But ultimately not deemed good enough or logical enough for our CB.

The fact is that many people expected us to beat Cavan because they are …..Cavan. We do tend to display some incredible arrogance for a county which has not won Sam in over 70 years and have failed on numerous occasions when we had the chance. Beating Cavan was never going to be a foregone conclusion Cavan had 5 weeks to prepare while we were coming in on a real downer after defeat to Galway. We had been very poor v Leitrim and Sligo. Then there is the fact that we are not blessed with great players As I have said before how many of this team would have made the 2012 - 2018 team. Ryan would and Aido and Coen weee in those panels and that is it. We simply don’t have good enough forwards bar one, our midfield has struggled all year and we are often porous at the back. I am not having a go at the players who are good but not great but we big a lad up after one good game and really hype up the players who are absent. While I have defended management and generally like McStay who I think is a decent guy, they are not blameless either. Our style of play has been slow and pedestrian and we don’t seem to have used the new rules to our benefit.James Horan was an excellent manager for us over 2 terms and despite people whinging that he never got us over the line, he had us playing exciting football and mixing it with the best. When he oversaw the defeat of Dublin in 2021 he was almost canonised only to become the villain 4 weeks later when so many arrogantly wrote off Tyrone and were shocked when we lost. We are in a bad place now but abusing all and sundry won’t really help. We have 2 hugely difficult games left and it would be a surprise if we got anything from those. Then I would expect the process of a search for a new manager will begin

“Such Diminishment” is the new album by top prog rocker Kevin McStay featuring the classics “newbridge or nowhere” and “2 points on offer”

No right to be having a go at St. Colmans team or U17 team as they are not adults.

Did Horan really take us from nowhere to contenders.Before JH we had been in 5 finals in 20 years roughly......so we havebeen contenders before JH.Also he was left with a great base of players from 2006 U21 win.I recently seen the lineup in Longford and was surprised how many of our great stars of the era that was to follow were on the pitch that day.
Horanmade his contribution and it was a fine one but I often feel there is a narrative out there that bathing existed before JH .....and that's just not the case

@FreeTheEastBank: Just looking back to the Longford defeat here on the blog...

"A fresh start is needed. Not just management, but players and at county board level too."

"Maybe a change of management will help a bit, but it just does not look like any of these players at able to make the grade at senior level."

"I know people say we dont have the players but look at Freeman (from relatively nowhere this year to our stongest performer in over two games), surely there is more out there."

"I don’t think anyone believed we were All Ireland contenders but how can it have gotten this bad."

"Has club football slid in Mayo and if it has, is that where we need to remedy firstly. Changing manager and sending out the same troops to bat will finish us completly."

"Anyone who goes to club games knows that the current county players are not the best in the county because you see them getting beaten every week ."

"Too many average players playing for Mayo. This is harsh but I believe that there are a number of players who played yesterday should never be seen in a Mayo jersey again. I wont name any names because these lads have given up their time and energy but are simply not good enough. We have too many players who simply dont have the requisite skills or confidence to kick the ball over the bar from even 25 yards."

"Our backs and some of our forwards are simply too small to compete at this level. The Longford half forward line were big strong men capable of running though our half back line at will."

Just went back to look at the team that started against longford in 2010 and 12 of them started against Dublin in 2017 final. Not sure was there that much of an overhaul needed. I think we will find out after this year what a bit of organization can do

Nephin - no doubt a few lads capable of kicking it over the bar from 25/30 mtrs would be a big help - maybe Coen could teach the skill? His first cousin Darren had that in spades, an out-and-out shooter!

Strangely these same lads have no difficulty kicking the same ball over similar goalposts from distance with their clubs,so I don't think it's that they can't do it... hard one to figure out!

It's Thursday and I'm still feeling deflated !

No one should have a go at St Colemans they are an under age team who did really well to get as far as they did.

Absolutely nothing wrong with us expecting to beat Cavan we should have beaten them . That's not arrogance either . There was total shock even outside of Mayo that we didn't beat them .

Even on the the football podcast with Tommy Rooney they were shocked is well that we lost .

It's called winning mentality not arrogance but obviously we don't have the winning mentality right now that's for sure . You'd never hear the likes of Kerry , Dubs or Galway saying we're going to loose Cavan .

I don't begrudge Cavan at all though . But that was definetly a shock no matter what .

Considering the amount of debt Mayo GAA has around it's neck, there's precious little to show for it and the same rumblings about training facilities and centres of excellence that we've listened to for years continue to rumble...........something not right in the house I'm afraid!

New pod up on Patreon - Mike and Rob with Billy Joe Padden and Colm Boyle sifting through the wreckage of Sunday and musing about where we go from here.

Nicely done @TsuDhoNim and @Mayo 36. Goes to show how emotions can blind us all. Certainly been emotional this week. Main message i took from.the pod was while we might be very close to the end for this year let's not give up without a fight. This year is still in our hands

That is funny,COC scored twelve points for his club a couple of weeks ago

I'd say a lot of people know the craic with Cillian and would not be expecting him back this year. Maybe next year if somethings change he could be back in action.

Correct Green&Red, that just just after our sprinters success in Europeans as well I think.

@Corick Bridget

There's really nothing funny about this you'd really want to quit it with those kind of comments .

Even when Cillian was there he got very limited game time. Whether through injury or squad selection.
Hope to see him next year with James Carr and O Hora. Hopefully some of the U20's start to filter through as well.
@Tsu looks like the more things change the more they stay the same

Clare I wouldn’t bother engaging with that poster who continues to make ridiculous comments

@1985

Yeah your spot on there!

@Bridget.... I think it's actually bloody hilarious that we couldn't find a way to keep him involved but just hoping 'if' the system were to change he could make himself available for a couple more years and then happily walk away when he feels the time is right .

When the mob is running towards a cliff, the one going in the opposite direction is deemed to be mad...

Do we not have plenty access to the pitches and facilities in Bekan?
I'm not sure I buy the structures viewpoint from James Horan.
We have academy teams.
We have full time coaches.
We have organized coach the coaches plan for club coaches.
We have access to cooked meals after each session at senior and underage.
We have weight training facilities.
We almost won four u17 Connaught titles in a row.
What is it that we can't do or are diminished in doing?
Uncertainty on training venue?
Morocco reached the world cup semi final and I seen those players in the streets of Morocco in 2004 as kids.
Dublin had no facilities when they won multiple Sams.
Armagh had no facilities. Tryone had no facilities.
Is it not better to not have a centre of excellence and ploiug money into underage coaches, footballs free to kids.
Every club playing child owning an O'Neills will out perform vastly any 10 million euro centre of excellence.
France, world cup champions, you know where they recruit their academy players? A lot of them out of a culture of street football played with skill in caged tiny pitches. So much so they've built more of those cage pitches.
Why was Ibrahimovicz brilliant? From being locked out of his house for hours on end playing on a rough tarmac housing estate plot.

Allow me to digress for a moment to share this fantastic piece of writing I was sent from the Anglo-Celt about badgers, hares, and well, Cavan. Hats off, Mr Fitzpatrick. I hope some of you enjoy it as much as I did.

https://www.anglocelt.ie/2025/05/20/a-tough-duel-but-cavan-find-a-different-way-to-slay-that-badger/

@ JP interesting points. Fully agree every child should have a size 4 / Size 5 O Neill's. A ball wall with markings is also something that would allow kids to practice their accuracy. Seems obvious but only see them here and there.
I'm living in Louth and know a couple of the county players that play with the club. The very first thing Devlin / Harte did when they started was to improve Darver Training facility by cutting the trees and tidy up around the place. Seemed bizarre to me to hear this approach but there must be something in it! 3 years later and where is Louth.

Looking at our squad and it's limitations adapting to and profiting from the new rules I think it's reasonable to assume that management believed they had the best group available...........for the old rules. The lads on the pod are correct in saying we don't have the players for the new rules but I think maybe we just donate them on the panel. Perhaps with basically a new game we should have held a series of trials before the season started to see if players could prove their ability to adapt. Hard to believe in our clubs that there aren't lads who will thrive and some that were suited to the old rules might struggle. I can't accept that every other county has the right type of players for this new game except Mayo. Club championship might show what we've been lacking this season.

@JP,
Here is a list of the facilities available to the Dubs.

Parnell Park
Huge facility at Abbottstown, weights, 3 or 4 full size pitches, 4 G pitch.
Good facility at DCU St Claires
ALL Weather pitches, weights etc and the use of some of the bigger club facilities also.

Jesus it’s extraordinary news this that Dublin had no facilities when they won multiple all Irelands

@Freetgeeastbank

I think you're correct on Horan. Did ok but especially his second stint has to be looked back on with context applied

Two Covid finals come with a big asterisk and papered over a lot of cracks. The first year like an exhibition tournament played at challenge match intensity and we didn't even play well in that. A 1 point win v a thrown together shambles Galway and a semi v Tipp before a comfortable final loss.

21 was a bit better but again, bar a half hour against Galway who completely ran out of puff in scorching temperatures, we didn't play well that summer either. Outlasted Dublin in a bad game, not a patch on our 2017 or 2016 displays. Fitness got us to that final not football and it showed in the final. 2018 and 2019 weren't good either

All of that is completely understandable though. Had a generational team 2012-2017 and they simply got old and many moved on. So realistically we haven't been a top side since 2017, and I don't think Horan managed to make us so, for all that he's a very good manager. So perhaps McStay isn't the disaster he's made out to be, and merely slightly underperformed with what he's had, which is a willing but ultimately very limited talent pool

It's a fantastic piece of writing alright, Anne-Marie, and I see that the Irish Times - quite rightly - have carried it in today's paper now as well. I know it's at our expense but you can't but be happy for them.

I'd have liked it more if the Badger had prevailed.

Had to read it to see what the Badger context was. Never realised there was such a connection between the 2 counties. Beautiful piece of writing.

I don't believe that we have not got someone within the Mayo setup management,players,or county board who can't reach a compromise with COC,who is the only player who can improve us,please get involved,he may well have problems,but he can improve us get someone out there

@ Corick , will be next year I would wager. he's not going to come back for 2 matches. He must have good reason to step away. Send the plane over for Oisin Mullin and coax Leeroy into dusting off the boots.
Something is rotten in the state of Denmark as Willie Shakespeare might say.

I think we all know why Cillian is not involved this year .

I'm of the view that if we had a lesser athlete but quality kickpasser for wing back they'd not get on our team ahead of a better athlete worse kick passer.
We've travelled so far down this attacking wing back road that too much of the county now see wing back as primarily about solo run attacking.
If it was professional sport with professional scouting and player analysis we'd be switching out several panel members both because of the new rules and simply because we have better options available ftom club football.
There were players injured when we had senior panel trials.

Maybe Kevin mcstay might coax himself to tog for the last two games.i know Horan tried to coax him back in 1996 and maybe Willie joe and liam McHale might return in midfield.they wouldn’t be expected to do much running.just fetch a few high ones..From predicting that mayo would definitely win the all Ireland this year to now looking for a player who walked away to return because he is the only player that can improve us

@BonniBoyler...''this could be the winter of our discontent''...to put it mildly.

Cillian was an absolutely fantastic footballer for Mayo since 2011. But he appears to be at the height of his powers this year joining an ever growing list of players who just seem to get better when they’re not playing. Why don’t we just accept (for whatever reasons) that he opted out this year. He owes Mayo nothing and is entitled to make his own decisions. Instead we should focus on the lads who did play and gave their best even if it was short of the expectations of some of us. Likewise we have been on about Tommy for months and DOC and Paddy’s injury and Eoghan Mac’s absence and Carr and Irwin etc etc There are all sorts of reasons why guys are not playing Some are injured, some opted out, some are physically not up to it, others may be in a bad place at the moment and some may just not be doing it in training .The guys who have played have given huge commitment, made countless sacrifices but maybe just at this moment in time our team is not sufficiently good enough to compete with the best. When confidence is low players struggle even more. Proof of all this is if you look at the Mayo team v Longford in 2010 and the relatively few changes in it in the years following when we competed in All Irelands. Fresh voices new tactics and a reinvigoration of the players can have a very positive impact

@2 Hops, Can't argue with that sentiment. Hopefully Durcan starts against Tyrone and Tommy C makes an appearance. Of all the performances since 2021 this one has me reeling. Don't mind losing the next 2 if the boys die with their boots on. Knowing Mayo we will probably go on to win Sam :-) Hup Maigheo

The Tyrone game may be our liberation. Before you all go wild, wait and let me explain ....

Mayo have nothing to loose now but pride. They can throw off the shackles from whatever system they have been following to date. They can go for broke now.

So I would say to to the players enjoy the game, express yourselves and see where it goes. It can't be any worse an outcome than we have seen so far.