Balla will be proud . Only 3 over the age of 25 playing today - they have no county lads which will kill them. Westport a mile off - McLoughlin being dropped is laughable, powerhouse for Westport today.

It was a game littered with unforced errors but Eoghan did fairly well. Westport are really missing the other two McLaughlin’s. What’s the story with Oisin and Finbarr? Aside from Kilkelly upfront, I didn’t think any of the Westport forwards showed much, at all. Their defence on the other hand were well organised. Balla were always chasing. Look a bit light. Struggled to get the ball inside. Cronin had to come deep and did ok. That young Clarke lad can play. He looks an intelligent player. If he can add a few pounds, look to gain another bit of pace then he seems the type who could step up. Obviously it’s all about hard work . Serious hard work. The one piece that really stood out for me from Keegan’s pod during the week was how much effort and commitment he put in to training and getting himself right to be the best he could for Mayo.

Senior championship looks wide open. Standard has only been ok. Crossmolina impressing the most at present. Their game v Belmullet will be very interesting to see and hope it’s on Mayo GAA Tv. All four games should be.

Little between BMD, Kiltane and Kilmeena in intermediate. As a neutral I’d like to see BMD go up. I’d be keen to see how their forwards would do at senior level.

There’s no B in BMD anymore, Mayonaze! They dropped that bit from their name some time ago.

The Holly Kilmaine situation was inevitable. So many said the two point rule would be very hard to police accurately at club venues etc. I feel sorry for both clubs. I don’t think either should have a say. It’s incredibly unfair to ask Kilmaine to comment or voice any opinion. Officials make mistakes all the time that lead to outcomes (positive/negative) and that’s just it. I like Hollymount but what kind of precedent does it set for the game if the match is replayed? Like what if a 45 is wrongly awarded to a team late in a game and it’s kicked over the bar and that team win by a point, yet video evidence proves the 45 shouldn’t have been awarded? Do you get a replay? No chance. It’s very tough luck.

It’s highly unfortunate on Holly but unless the error is picked up by officials during the match, then the result is the result.

The GAA hierarchy should have very definite rules on this with regard to appealing the outcome of a match. I’ve no idea if they do or don’t but when the two point rule was introduced it was obvious that this scenario would arise.

I’ve always been a skeptic of the 2point rule anyway.

Jeez WJ, I never knew that :D a bit like Emmerdale Farm dropping the ‘farm’!!

Westport seem to have a very small panel this year. I'm only going out the team sheets but it's the smallest in every game. I think this could be what catches them out. You see ballina yesterday bringing one like Feeney and k golden and I think Sean Regan. That's serious experience to bring onto a team.

I hear oisin MCL is fine travelling but no idea if finbarr is available. Also the morans. I seen mark play a league game early this year but not featured championship. Colm only playing a small part.

I was expecting too see Finbar McLaughlin yesterday. Lorcan Silke struggling a bit with injury. The move to put Joey Holmes into the full forward line to give it a bit more punch just didn't come off. Westport need Kevin Keane to be firing on all cylinders, I'm wondering is he struggling a bit with a niggly injury. Definitely westport not rushing minors onto the senior panel, but they are not going to go down easy either.

@Mayonaze: "The GAA hierarchy should have very definite rules on this with regard to appealing the outcome of a match. I’ve no idea if they do or don’t but when the two point rule was introduced it was obvious that this scenario would arise."

They have fairly explicit ones (7.5 (n) - https://www.gaa.ie/api/images/image/upload/t_q-best/prd/efpxmlrx9gbvafzj4gzo.pdf ).
Whether they're 'definite' is more open for debate.

Any appeal based on a score being allowed (or wrongly failed to allow) is instantly ruled "out of order" and dismissed. So questions on stuff like the Knockmore/Westport 3 up breach, the Castlebar/Breaffy pick off the ground or the Kilmaine calls for a penalty immediately after the initial penalty save are all decision at the time only and no room for appeals.

This specific situation of a score being incorrectly given [I'm intentionally avoiding using 'awarded' or 'recorded' there] as a 2 instead of 1 (where it can be clearly proven and had an impact on the result of the game) one of the very few nuances where it is open to appeal.

Whether it's successful or not (a massive nuanced reading of "awarded" versus "recorded" in the rules I can't imagine any of us are in a position to weigh in on meaningfully) difficult to call, but with the precedents set nationally around this already I'd be fairly shocked if Mayo GAA decided to become the test case for pushing an alternative stance. As messy as a replay is, potentially needing to take it through multiple levels of appeal to the DRA with all the negative publicity of such a glaring error attached is the more of the many evils in my view.

On pragmatism, precedent and even GAA politics (I can't imagine Mayo CB wanting to be the centre of news reports on stuff other than actual football if it can be avoided), I'd be fairly shocked if we don't see a replay granted in this one.

"It’s highly unfortunate on Holly but unless the error is picked up by officials during the match, then the result is the result."

This would likely have its own section in that whole can of worms. On a team of 7 connected officials, it'd be hard to believe none had any issues with the call (plenty of folks far nearer the clubhouse than the play that seemed well able to see it - despite any questions on lights or pitch-markings). Can't imagine anyone involved that evening would be overly keen to see the finer details dug into during a lengthy appeals process.

I thought the choice to gloss over the situation entirely yesterday evening for the draw after previously informing the media a decision would be made at that meeting seemed a little odd. Slightly Streisand-esque, that could end up making it a bigger deal as folks are left with idle speculation (like this - my own hypocrisy here noted) rather than discussing a specific decision where the board had the chance to frame the narrative with their findings.

My tips for the SFC

Crossmolina v Belmullet - Crossmolina - home record to make the difference
Knockmore v Ballintubber - Knockmore looking good now
Breaffy v Westport - Westport just no going well enough to win
Ballaghaderreen v Ballina Stephenites - The only away win on the cards.

Connacht Gold SFC relegation semi finals:
Ballyhaunis v Aghamore - Ballyhaunis look doomed
Mayo Gaels v Charlestown Sarsfields - Mayo Gaels set for final also

IFC quarter finals:
Ardnaree v Parke Keelogues Crimlin - Ardnaree to win at home
Kilmeena v Kilmaine - Kilmeena should do it
Kiltane v Cill Chomain - Kiltane
Moy Davitts v Ballinrobe - Moy Davitts too good here.

IFC relegation semi finals:
Islandeady v Louisburgh - Louisburgh to lose here
Lahardane MacHales v Burrishoole - Burrishoole to progress to final

GROUP 1
Winner Ardagh, R up Bonniconlon. Prelim qfinal Ballycastle

GROUP 2
WINNERS: Tuar Mhic Éadaigh RUNNERS-UP: Kiltimagh PRELIM QF: Northern Gaels

GROUP 3
WINNERS: Shrule/Glencorrib RUNNERS-UP: Eastern Gaels PRELIM QF: Swinford.

On a team of seven connected officials, realistically only two of them - the referee and the linesman closest to the ball would have good visibility on where the shot was taken from and that is in no way guaranteed. Umpires - at the far end, impossible. At the attacking end, very difficult to make out where the 40m arc is. The linesman on the other side of the field would not have a good view of the shot and would likely be checking the other half of the pitch for breaches. So yes mistakes can and will happen. That is just an unfortunate feature of a fast-moving amateur game without any assistive technology and officials who have too many rules to cover as it is. I fully get why HollyCarra are aggrieved at the outcome but I think it would set a bad precedent if a replay was allowed.

@Ultair: The precedents have been set allowing the replays nationally in this set of circumstances. A choice not to go to replay would be breaking precedents rather than setting a new one.

What you've mentioned are all valid reasons to desire a rule to potentially be rewritten (especially one like this that was written long before 2 points existed and was mostly intended for scenarios where a point was mistakenly awarded to the wrong team). They wouldn't (or at least shouldn't) be a factor when judging an appeal against the existing rule.

Emmerdale should never have dropped the farm it went to hell after that

TsuDhoNim -I presume you are referring to the Fermanagh league final as precedent. Was that a ruling ? I seen that the two clubs agreed to a replay rather than a county board ruling a replay. If it was agreed between the two clubs then no precedent to replay it but maybe you could say there is precedent to allow a replay if both clubs agree.

It's a mess. I think the county board preference would be an agreement by both clubs to replay (or HC withdrawal of objection) but I really can't see these happen. it will be over to CCC/county board to make a ruling which I expect to be appealed to Connacht council and possibly further.

That replay in fermanagh league final was ordered by CB

@The bruiser: The clubs both agreed to the replay and avoided the mess of further hearings, but the objection was first upheld by the CCC (the decision that matters) with the agreement of the sides streamlining the resolution of it (there's no rule that stipulates a replay is the only solution in the case of a successful objection - that's up to the CCC to decide).

"“Having considered the communications from both clubs, the CCC has decided that the Objection has been upheld, as provided for in Rule 7.5 (n) (ii), on the grounds that two scores allowed during the course of the Game were incorrectly recorded and that that affected the result of the Game.

“The response received from Derrygonnelly Harps to the Objection has allowed this decision to be taken without the need for any hearings to take place.

“The CCC has therefore determined that a replay of this game is required. Further engagement will take place with both clubs on potential dates and an outcome will be communicated once it has been agreed by the CCC.”"

There's a (potentially) similar case going on up in Donegal between Realt Na Mara & Naomh Padraig... but that one has its own quirks where the initial hearing never happened, got chased by the club and messily going as far as Ulster Hearings Committee now.

I haven't seen (or heard of anyone that has) clear evidence of a mistake in that one (a 2-pointer being given as a one) so a chance it (and lots of others) fail on the lack of proven evidence rather than on the fundamentals of the rule itself. A specific issue that wouldn't be the case for HollyCarra where it's fairly crystal clear what happened in the stream footage.

I'm not even sure precedent is a relevant argument. The GAA's decision-making isn't based on slavishly following settled case law and just because a particular decision was made in one county doesn't mean the same decision has then to be made elsewhere (and, in any event, if the clubs agreed to a replay in Fermanagh then there's no precedent at all).

Regardless of the video evidence - which is completely clear, the shot was without doubt taken from inside the scoring arc - I'd agree that we're going down a very dangerous road if match results are to be overturned on this basis. The history of the early decades of the GAA is one of constant objection and counter-objection, with competitions delayed for months or even years because of such procedural wrangling. We even lost what should have been our first All-Ireland title a hundred years ago to Galway, due to their fancier footwork in the committee room. Do we really want such a situation to become the norm in the GAA again now?

There's clearly housekeeping to be done by the GAA over the coming months on this (if the 2-point score is to be retained, which appears all but certain). They need to tidy up the current jesuitical wording that they've got relating to appeals where scores are concerned (two provisions of which appear to directly contradict each other). They also need to give serious consideration to getting rid of the redundant inside arc, the sole purpose of which now appears to create confusion for everyone.

Closer to home, Hollymount/Carramore really need to have a long, hard think about whether or not this is a road they want to embark on. There are various reasons why they're not in the play-offs aside from that contested score. They didn't beat Louisburgh by as much as Kilmaine did, for starters. And in the match against Kilmaine, Darren Coen missed two frees late on that you'd have expected him to put over and which, if he'd done so, would almost definitely have led to a different result. In the final analysis, they're out for a variety of different reasons and, hard and all as it is, it's an outcome they should be big enough to accept.

Thanks Tsu.

What about that example I gave where a 45 is given to a team. They score it. They win by a point. Video evidence conclusively shows that no 45 should have been awarded. Ok there are differences because the issue is an act that lead to a situation allowing a score to result as opposed to what has happened in Holly/Kilmaine where the issue is over the awarding of 2 points when it should have been 1. We start going deep into technicalities and interpretation of wording, but the situation is still very, very similar.

I don't like it. I don't like the pressure it now places on clubs and individuals. It should be taken out of their hands. The rules should be black and white.

A bit of a morass, the whole damned two pointer debacle.

Thanks Tau.
If there is reliance on precedent of this then I think it can still be brought to higher levels of the gaa for further rulings as ultimately a county board ccc shouldn't be able to decide something that becomes a national rule.

WJ totally agree with your assessment over HC having a hard look at themselves and the route they are taking. We are all great at blaming someone else (usually the referee) for not winning a game but in most cases we only have ourselves to blame. Also if the score was different kilmaine would have played differently for last few mins as they would be needing a score, not defending a score.

@Mayonaze: The 45 one (and most other hypothetical scenarios mentioned beyond a 2 being given as a 1 or a 1 being given as a 2) is a relatively easy call. No potential for an objection there. Things that require re-reffing of subjective calls like those explicitly ruled out as grounds for an objection.

The potential for the objection in this niche scenario is only on 7.5 (n) (ii) and incorrectly recording a score (and only in the scenario where it's clear and impacted on the result).

"(ii) That it is proven that a score allowed during the course of the Game was either not recorded or incorrectly recorded by the Referee and that error had affected the result of the Game.
An Objection or Counter-Objection based on the Grounds that the Referee had incorrectly allowed or failed to allow a score during play shall be deemed to be out of order."

That's a rule that absolutely needs to be looked at to avoid future messes like this. However, until it is re-written, it's the rule everyone is playing to.

As I've already flagged, it's also a rule that's widely open to differing interpretations, specifically the meaning and relative priority given to the words "allow" and "record". As a result, the potential for objection isn't at all clear and certainly isn't something where the position adopted by one county board binds everyone else. It's far from fanciful to see an objection on this ending up going all the way to the DRA, which really would be the nightmare outcome. As I've already said, Holly/Carra would be well advised to think long and hard about the merits of what they're doing before embarking on this route.

In my opinion I genuinely think Holly/Carra should not appeal this. And if they do I think the CB should reject it. I really feel for them, they were robbed of a place in the QF.

But, this weekend alone I have seen so many bad officiating performances that if every club appealed something they could probably get a replay. Where do we draw a line? Pardon the pun. If a replay occurred then every club would lodge appeals. I remember a senior QF back in 2021 when a team was down to 14 players with 5 minutes to go and some how snook on another player. You could count 15 players on the field from the RTE camera. Thankfully it had no bearing on the result.

The truth is that refs make mistakes and as brutal as that mistake on Friday was, if a replay is awarded then a precedent is set for clubs to challenge results on every game thereafter. In Garrymore Ballina yesterday there was a breech that was not brought up to top of the arc? That denied a 2p scoring opportunity. 2 weeks ago there was a breech highlighted to a ref who decided to ignore his 4th official. Breaffy and Belmullet, a kickout that goes outside the arc is deemed inside by a linesman. Breaffy score and end up winning by a point. Can Castlebar get video evidence and launch an appeal on that?

I feel for Holly/Carra, I really do and I know my opinion will be unpopular and if I was from Holly Carra I’d be cursing the comment. But my frustration lies at the feet of officials and the clear lack of standard setting in the CB. The CB do not care for the quality of the officiating which is driving players and managers and supporters cuckoo and I can’t blame them.

Ontheditch, Westports game plan was to hit long ball into Kevin Keane are you'd say it kinda worked. Ger Flanagan was outstanding and definitely won the battle individually, but Keane was still a great focal point to aim for and Westport forwards played off the breaking ball well.
Westports game plan was refreshing, landing long ball into the square, much better to watch than Balla walk the ball up the pitch at walking pace throughout
Probably just don't have the quality to really trouble teams as they look to progress though.

@Green&red: "Can Castlebar get video evidence and launch an appeal on that?".
No.

The only one mentioned there (aside from HollyCarra) that could potentially lead (or have led at the time) to a successful objection if proven is exceeding the number of players allowed (6.44 (b)(ii) of Part 1 at the time, 15.2 (b)(i) of Codes now).

The same issue from the '23 All Ireland Club Final where Glen were awarded a replay on a successful objection to Crokes' 16 (or 17) players but then declined to accept it.

The referees decision on the day should be final (with the exception of foul play where a further suspension is warranted).
If you can overturn a match because the wrong score was awarded during a match, sure why not overturn if a man should have been sent off but wasnt - which might have change the end result.

Fermanagh County board messed up their replaying of the league final - Mayo county boards shouldn't make the same mistake - let it go to the DRA if Hollymount think is was such a travesty. They had plenty of time to win the game after that score and didn't. No point crying after the fact - they aren't good enough to win the title anyway so all they will do is prolong the inevitable at the expense of everyone else who wants to run off the championship on time. MIght be a different story if it was the final and they were hard done by in the last minute.

I think the gaa will have to employ two officials at all games to sit on a perch(a la Wimbledon) with the sole job to watch the players positioning around both arcs.
Rough job this time of year I know and always a danger his step ladder could be interfered with if he makes contentious calls, but it's that or we drop the 2 pointer imo.

@williejoe. I was delighted to see your last paragraph above regarding the chances HC missed at the end. Sure enough they are allowed to be frustrated about it but overall they had plenty of chances and if they took 1 this issue wouldn't have arose..HC scored a 2 pointer that hopped over the bar and kilmaine missed a penalty and that's a five point swing if both those shots had ended the way they usually do. Overall kilmaine deserved to win and HC reputation will probably work out better if they accept the result and move on.

Whether anyone thinks HC had any little or no chance of winning the championship or had ample opportunities and time in the 2nd half etc shouldn’t really come into it if the rules were properly drafted. I don’t think it’s fair to use those things against them. This should just be black and white. There’s either a case for appeal or there isn’t. While I agree the result should stand, I do think it was a total cock up and you have to have sympathy for HC. Nevertheless, I don’t think you should be able to get a replay because of it. HC’s expressed desire to appeal this has placed Kilmaine in a very undesirable and awkward position and of not fault on them.

The mayo news reporting a few hours ago that Holly carra had until 8:00 this evening to get appeal in. It was from county board source and sounded like no appeal had been received.

Maybe common sense prevailed.

Appeal lodged as per Mayo News 3 minutes ago.

In fairness guys, if a referee is on his game he should be close enough to see where the player is placed when shooting for a point or two pointer, but this can be an issue if a pitch is poorly marked, the ARC should be a thicker line in red or better still yellow in colour.

yellow lines on a green pitch? they're far too similar surely? Poor ould WJ would be at a complete loss trying to make out where on the pitch the action was happening.

The change in colour of the arc would differ from one colour blind person to another. Blue would suit me fine. Yellow or red would be far worse than white. As I said in a previous post, double the width of the line in white. It surely would make it easier to see, provided it was redone the morning after a heavy night’s rain .