WJ whatever way I joined up I'm paying €6 a month and have to wait that bit longer for episodes and yes it's through Patreon

Hi Citog. It’s €5 a month plus vat which works out at €6•15. Could this be difference.

Great Pod, wasn't sure if Peter C was mixing up Armagh and Tyrone in the last match played. Seems intent on sticking with "Wherever I may Roam keepers" . Kerry should be interesting.

Great pod. Also listened to Boyler on Newstalk Wednesday night. I agree with a few points made especially the concerns around the 2 pointer. The more I see it, the 2 pointer is such a radical change to the game we have known all our lives and in windy conditions makes certain games a joke. I worry it also could ruin the provincials where Division 3 or 4 teams play a D1 and we could see 30 points scored over one team (nobody wants to see that). Also, why bother going for goals at all, you only get 1 extra point for it?. At very least they may need to reconsider 4 points for a goal if they keep the 2 pointer. No issue with 2 points for a free off the ground outside the arc, it also preserves the art of place kicking which is being lost at the moment.. Not even going to mention how it could effect at club level.

You beat me to it, Nephin! The monthly sub on Patreon is €5 plus VAT, which comes to €6.15. I don’t understand why you should be waiting longer for episodes - once we release them on Patreon everyone has access to them at the same time.

Great pod Peter Canavan is great to listen to so level headed and he knows his stuff.

@Nephin. Ta thats probably it. You've a much better view from the top of your title!

@inexile get rid of the two pointers and then we’re back to the boring defensive football of last year. No one wants to see a poor team getting mauled by a better team so that’s why the provincials should be scrapped. On the goals i think we’ve seen roughly the same amount of goals as previous years (don’t have stats)

@Plunkett: If we look across the entire league, we're looking well up for avg. goals and look set to break all the totals since '14.

"The NFL is on track to have the highest number of white flags and total score ever (both passing the 2014 record).

We are also on track to have the highest number of goals (262) since 2014 (282). The goal record was set in 1990 (377)."
https://x.com/GaelicGameStats/status/1894665846338830842

@TsuDhoNim it would be interesting to see how that looks as a % of the number of points scored compared to earlier years. The GAA seems to have gone off on the tangent that more scores means more exciting games . In my humble opinion we don't need to change the game into basketball, whats more important are a set of rules that turn the game into an exciting contest. We recall those great Mayo Dublin finals around 2016/17 they were great games averaging about 1 15 or 1 16 and that was high by comparison to other great contested finals.

Hopefully we get good dry conditions on Saturday with minimal wind. Be interesting to see the match ups at throw-in.
Is there any good reason why it's not a double header with the Mayo ladies playing Kerry ladies on Sunday in Swinford?

I'd say it's the same reason the men's game is on so early, JoeG - the floodlights are out of action at the minute so that limits the scope greatly for double-headers at this time of year.

@InExile: Yeah, that'd be great for more context.

It gets even messier when we have the official numbers from the GIU being compared to previous Championship years, which have seasonal and other factors messing with comparisons a bit (https://x.com/StatsAndSolos/status/1893406463684391144 - great for a bit more nuance on those).

Totally agree that scoring isn't a measure or judgement of the quality of a game. I'd say most of us have jumped out of our seats for as many crunching Boyler tackles or for last ditch Zippy or Kenny Mort blocks as we have for goals at the other end. For all the talk of it being a forwards game now, we've never seen as much opportunity for star defenders to shine either.

Though not sure if I'd agree that they're off on a tangent for scores. It'll get the odd mention, as it did here with a query raised on why would a team bother going for goals under the rules despite them looking to be up so far this year, but it seems relatively sparingly in the FRC/official comms I've come across.

If we look to increase the speed of the game, contests and an increase in space for skilful players to attack 1v1 or 2v2 with fewer bodies around (be it the faster game from S&G/dissent rules or the 3/3 keeping certain bodies away) - all of which would be viewed as positives to most fans going on the initial FRC survey questionnaire - increased scoring will happen despite not being the sole end goal of those changes. People just seem to like an awful lot of the events that end up leading to scores, so they become a big part of it.

For actually judging the impact of changes, I'd imagine most of us feel the eye test is far more important than any number test. Be it scores or anything else. It's hard to beat seeing a Clifford or a Walsh flying at full tilt or watching a McGrath or O'Sullivan battling 1v1 to hunt them down, even if certain stats aren't going anywhere at the time.

You’re right Citog. I can see your house from here.

As mentioned by John stagg on ah ref pod it was planned to be a double header before the men’s game was brought forward. The early time would be too early for the Kerry ladies travelling

@InExile.I'm with you on the 2 pointer and, for me, it brings more negatives than positives. Skewed halves in any kind of wind, relocation of the blanket/lateral passing, devalues the worth of a goal and your point about heavy trashing in the provincials is very valid. And 2 points for a free is plain daft. Imagine the late drama in games where one team is going for a goal to overturn a 2 point deficit. This will now be replaced by trying to set up an equalising 2 pointer, or worse still, gain or manufacture/con a 2 point free. I don't think the game needs 3 different value scores.

I like the 2 pointers, it should free up space inside if teams need to defend further out. At the moment the weather conditions are having a big impact and teams are defending deeper but that may change come championship time.

2 pointers are mad & make scores look mad to but guess if we had guys like Shane Walsh who could get loads of 2 pointers we wouldn't mind.

Though Stephen Coens 2 pointer was class. Wonder will they keep the 2 pointers.

On the two pointers,

The potential provincial trashings is a structural problem not a problem with the scoring system.
There will always be trashings regardless of the 2 pointers when you have such a disparity in the quality of teams.

The 2 pointer had been critical in 3 ways,

1 - Teams were coached not to shoot unless you were in a certain zone, Teams were completely risk adverse. Now there's an incentive to take that risk.

2 - It creates space close to goal, Clifford would not in a million years have scored 3 goals on Sunday without that arc that created his space.

3 - It means games are in the melting pot right upto the end, Mayo down by 8 ordinarily you lose, Kerry down by 7, Dublin down by 12.
You cannot take your eyes off a game now.

The 2 pointers need to go end off.
It serves no purpose devalues a goal also.why should you get 2 points to kick a ball over from 40 yards.
The 3 up rule will work with certain tweaks for certain scenarios and this will lead to a more open game.

I keep the arc for kickouts to go past and also goalkeeper should not be able venture out past the arc.

Tap and go is fantastic.

@Aidan agree 2 pointers should go. Don't like it either when the goalie comes as far out.

Agree on the two pointers.

And, a general point: is it me or are Mayo cursed on the new rules, and on the wrong side of every decision? Last Saturday, we were opened up in the first half, and hoping to get to the dressing room asap, when the hooter goes. Thank God for that; hold on a mo, Armagh are getting to take that free we conceded. And of course they score, from an impossible angle. Earlier Darren Mac put Ryan clean through, and he’s taken down and out of it; goal was on for sure; free in, not even a card. Mayo in control near the end, Fergie B penalised, free in with ball moved close to goal

These anti 2 point comments really sound like sour grapes. A two pointer rewards the team with the most skilful players who can kick the ball. It’s a great rule and just because mayo aren’t the best at it currently doesn’t mean it should be scrapped. As well they are not easy to score, especially when teams figure out ways to defend it effectively. As for it devaluing the goal, the goal is worth 3 points and two pointers 2. there has been plenty goals across the four divisions so far so it seems that argument has nothing to do with reality

@Plunkett.Just to be clear, my dislike of the 2 pointers has nothing to do with sour grapes, as you put it, nor has it anything to do with Mayo not being blessed with players able to take advantage. If Mayo had the most and the best 2 point takers, my opinion would remain the same, for all the reasons I have already outlined.

Might not be as many two pointers scored come championship, the rules have changed surely but the space afforded in league compared to championship might stay the same , time will tell .

I think the focus on the 2 pointers and the swing in many games is because the new rules have coincided with an unusually windy period even for this time of year. As the season moves on and the weather calms down it will become more of an open contest hopefully where 2 pointers without wind assistance will prove their worth.
As a matter of interest has anyone the data on the 2022 final when Walsh and Clifford had a shoot out regarding possible 2 pointers?

Good luck to the poor defenders marking Clifford and Murphy and young Canavan in the championship. We're all just trying to figure it out as of yet so it'll make for great entertainment anyway. The directness of O'Callaghan and Comer might prove to be way to go yet!

I think those calling for radical changes will be disappointed.

The only radical change i envisage is the 12 v 11.

They won't scrap the 2 pointer imo.

They'll fixed the anomaly of the black card rule that's a certainty.

All interesting stuff on 2 pointers but frankly whether it's 1 or 2 doesn't bother me because as InExile says the game is being turned into basketball. Handpassing needs to be limited which will bring back the physicality into the game. It's like pass the parcel anymore which is down to coaching and handpassing and it's why lots of young lads are turning to rugby.

I think if they stop the keeper creating the 12 v 11 that will have a positive effect on the hand passing and keep ball tactics.

I made the exact same point after week 1 in the league that Boyler is saying now and I'm glad he's saying it. I don't like the new scoring system. Yes, much more space is required, but that's what the '3 up' rule is for. Also, scoring from a really tight angle is far more impressive that a boomer from down the middle. Much more skill required and yet it doesn't count as much? Absolutely daft.

Keepers up is also daft. It's like watching a new game.

I'd hold onto tap and go. I'd hold onto 3 up (but amend so teams with black/red cards are punished) and implment some rule regarding the keeper. Maybe allowed bring the keeper up if trailing by some amount.

I see the point about the new rules allowing teams back into it who were 8 down, like us last weekend but to be frank, maybe you shouldn't play so crap that you go 8 down in the first place. Reward positivity, bravery and teams who perform. The rules aren't there to keep teams who fall behind a chance to come back into it

West Kerry 12 v 11 will only make a miniscule difference and until they address the core issue of passing back and the coaching brain freeze things will stay the same. The Sigerson Final under the old rules was a joy to watch as both teams moved the ball forward quickly as that was their mind set. So in order to develop a positive mindset back passing has to be addressed but this is probably too radical for GAA officialdum.

I don't think you can use college football as a reference for quality football.
They are a group of lads with little or no tactical approach, They just go out and play.

The reason the 12 v 11 impacts the hand passing is that the extra player is giving the team in possession the ability to play piggy in the middle.

11 v 11 is 1v1 and you wont get as much time on the ball.

I think aswell in the winter the hand passing is more prevalent because of the conditions.

It's also the outlook of certain teams, Mayo being considered a running team and Kerry a kicking one.

When Mayo kicked the ball in 23 in Killarney they killed us.

@Steeks for Reeks good post agree!

Wish folks would chill out on the new rules instead of nitpicking, let's keep them for a championship and decide then. Think we can all agree we're watching better games so far this year

The 2 point rule should be dynamic! In addition to the digital clock all stadiums should be fitted with digital anemometers to measure wind speed and 2 pointers only allowed under a specific wind force ;)

I’ll be interested in seeing the handpassing stats at the end of the league , certainly to the eye it doesn’t appear that anything has changed. On the two pointers , I was all for it initially , but I’m not convinced kicking a free from the hands with the wind at your back is worthy of two points …I feel the weather will have a greater impact on games now.

@You Three: It's worth it.

For every 1000 posts on the rules, someone might be able to crack a light on a different option or something completely missed by others (be that for the rule makers to address or for managements to attempt to exploit). They also go a long way to helping an informed (depending on the quality of the discussions) consensus form in favour or against specific rules, which again is pretty helpful.

There are some big issues (not necessarily the ones getting the line-share of attention) and a few elements of the rule-book that are currently broken. Those need fairly immediate attention. Without chats like these (quite literally these chats and some of the questions on Discord) those problems are less likely to surface and get brought to attention.

For the more subjective things that can/could be let slide for now, we do have a pretty tight window to work with.

Any significant changes really want to come in prior to the Championship kicking off, or the integrity of that competition suffers. That means they have to be part of the FRC meetings coming on Friday & Monday to be in place for R6. Then all of these changes need to be either scrapped or permanently accepted (for 4 more years at least - still don't understand how/why Motion 7 failed, it is the cause of so many of the current headaches) at the end of the year. It's unclear how much the public or county officials would trust changes only brought in at club level, so these meetings coming inside the next 4 days (and chats like these that have the potential to filter in towards those) will go a long way to deciding the face of football up to 2030.

I'd be in favour of letting a season run and then have a good look at the new rules. As someone said summer football is quite different as regards kicking 2pointers in particular.
I like the solo&go as it does speed up the game but I think a grey area with it (as in rugby too) is how soon you can get a tackle in...is it the 10 metres,or at each ref's discretion?
It's very hard to let a lad away if he's in around the 20 m line when he decides to solo and go.
Instinct just kicks in.

Great points @TDN(sorry but that needs to stick, just easier to type on the phone!). I didn't hate the game last year, even with the lateral shite, I enjoyed every Mayo game outside of that first half vs Derry. What I can't understand is why we don't focus our frustrations in the right direction, the FRC don't enact rule changes, they propose them for Congress to approve. I think the problem lies there, proposal B, Motion 7, league 1 finals that every team wants to avoid. Representatives from our county are voting for these things without telling us why. I feel like the FRC are being hung out to dry as this all powerful unit when in reality they have f all

My criticism of the FRC is that Jim Gavin in the beginning said that he ignored trial league rules as he was only focused on championship, I think they'd have been better off saying they were in for the year and be done with it, everything I hear/see now spends way too much time talking about rules over the games themselves. I feel for them though as any changes(positive or negative) can only be known after the red heat of a championship battle. Keep them as is for now, think they're not fully ratified until November(one change, back to 4 point goal)

The problem I have with the new rules is that they do not address the big issue, possession.
Come championship, when the stakes are higher, teams will be able to play the possession game with 12 v 11 advantage. Possession will be used by teams playing against the wind or to protect a good lead.

@2 hops: "... is it the 10 metres,or at each ref’s discretion?".

No 'grey area' there. You've 0-4m from where the foul occurred to where you'd need to take the solo and another 4m following that where you can't be touched, so anywhere from 4m to 8m of untouched movement depending on the execution of it.

(Though writing that response prompted me to check the wording exactly and just noticed rather than grey we've a more problematic great black hole with it. One that I haven't spotted anyone mention before.

If you stand still, keep soloing to prevent from fouling the ball on time to take 4 steps, then there's no current caveat or exemption in the rule that allows a defender to eventually come in and tackle you unless you go more than 4m from the original solo - go 1 point up in the 2nd half, and technically you can see out the game from there by the current wording.

Cheers for sparking that)

@You Three: I'll only add to your frustrations... it's even worse than that, given the whole extra layer of the Rule Advisory Committee between successful motions and then turning those into rules. A layer that caused multiple issues in this latest round of changes.

On completely the same page with Congress. It's a non transparent, non-justified decisions mess of a system at the moment.

How any of Motions 7, 10 or 39 didn't sail through at the recent annual congress is beyond me.

Motion 7 - opening up smaller tweaks on an annual basis would have helped hugely, instead we're stuck with this 5 year ordeal.
Motion 10 - would have opened a door for clubs to potentially share facilities with the local community & generate additional income from it (just like counties already can).
Motion 39 - remove a restriction on playing gear that potentially has us in breach of EU regulations, changing the current restriction from "Irish Only" to a more legally acceptable "GAA Approved Only".

Thanks TDN, it's like they've built committees on committees(I hear that with a D'Unbelievables voice). I'm 20 minutes into the RTE GAA podcasts, full weekend of games, it lasts 30 minutes and now we start talking about the weekend games. So 1/3 talking about the actual games. For me that highlights the problem. It's structure and gamesmanship, league 1 is for maintaining(not winning), league 2 is for coming first or second so that next year you avoid coming first or second in league 1. Wish we'd be more bold and think about what's best for the players and fans

TDN, as the resident rules expert, can you shed any light on what happens if a player is awarded a free on 13m line and they take a solo and go?
Are the entitled to run unimpeded to 5m out from goal I.e. a free shot at goal from the hands, much easier than a penalty in all likelihood

@Tubberman: No. Once a free is inside the 20m line it can't be taken as a S&G, you have to take the kick from those positions.

(Part of 2.5(c) - "A Solo and Go may not be taken within the opposition 20m line.")

We're motions 7, 10 and 39 rejected?

@Ontheditch: Motions 7 & 10 didn't pass (only 57.6% & 52.8% in favour - needed 60% to pass), while 39 was withdrawn and deferred to special congress.

@TDN. I doubt very much that those decisions are reflecting the general feeling among GAA followers.
Are delegates directed by their clubs how to vote. I know very little about the admin side of GAA.

Just in relation to a comment on time of year and wind.
It can be a very windy day even in summer and don’t forget there is a lot of club championship games played in September and July October also.

The 2 points system just has to go end of. Teams nearly seem to be re cycle the ball now to outside the arc.
Get rid of this and will cut down on hand passing along with the goalkeeper coming up.
Then you see more direct kicking inside .

Genuine question - If Mayo were kicking 2 pointers at the rate of Galway would you be objecting to them as much Aidan ?

Just to be clear Kerry have the 2nd lowest rate of 2 pointers in the division.

@Aidan yeah agree I just don't think the 2 pointers are great for the game.

Colm Boyle said it to about the scoring system it makes it look mad whatever about them obviously not changing the rules this year I think they will get rid of the 2 pointers next year.

I'm all for two pointers and would also favour goals to 4 pointers. Otherwise teams will settle for setting up 2 pointers and rarely attempt going for a goal. That's my opinion though, everyone is entitled to theirs.

It is either a 2 pointer for all scores outside the arc , expect fifties or no 2 pointers.
If frees are just 1 every forward will be fouled outside the arc.
I would leave the scoring as it traditionally was.
The other changes are enough to improve the game, some one said goalie can only enter the play inside opponents 45, real problem if he loses the ball.

@west Kerry If Mayo were kicking them like Shane Walsh I be still totally against it.
I just don’t see why you should get rewarded 2 points from kicking a ball over from 35/40 yards

Also it’s the club games where I can see carnage with the 2 points.

Aidan, The reason they are being rewarded is two fold.
They are designed to reward taking risks. Risks that had been coached out of players.
The other reason is to create space for forwards to show their talents.

@WestKerry,ss I already replied to an earlier comment, I like to debunk this theory that many of us on here dislike the 2 pointers, because they don't suit Mayo at the moment. Most of us are that shallow. I just don't think they do anything for the game for reasons I have outlined many times and 2points for a free, in particular, is just plain daft. The 3 v. 3 in itself was sufficient in creating more space for forwards. I worry that we are now going to be stuck with whatever version the review settles on for 4 more years. So nothing done until 2030 on the two main bugbears, the handpass and the tackle.

The 3v3 was not in itself sufficient in creating space because if teams do not have the threat of a 2 pointer they will not push out and defend the arc.

They will sit deep in a blanket and play counter attacking football.

They'll just be 3 players short but as Kerry showed against Tyrone when down to 13 players the whole team bar 1 retreated into there defense.

All the rules are interlinked for good reason.

I really hope the 2 point score is kept, it's great for the game, and its needed to combat teams having players block up the goal. Teams are not focused on defending the 2 point score yet, but come championship they will have to push out and that will create more goal scoring chances.
Shane Walsh is kicking them for fun, but there hasn't been much pressure put on him, that will change later in the year. Mayo will create a lot more goal scoring chances with A O Shea in at full forward.
Getting rid of the 2 pointer, then the game will just go back to what it was, counter attacking, don't concede a goal and try to win by a point.
Colm Boyle is a defender so of course he be against it, all defenders are against anything that makes there job harder, and that's the change football needed, to stop making it easy to block up the scoring zone with bodies and having dull games with not much scoring.

Exactly Tommy.

And as previous corner forward in a past life... Who cares about defenders!

@Glas agus Derg agree with that.

Don't think the reason Colm Boyle is against it is because he was a defender. Getting 2 points for outside the arc just isn't great for the game it should go back to the old score system.

@Aidan agree also I don't get why you should get 2 points for kicking from that distance either.

Having heard Boyler at close quarters on the pod, I can confirm that his scepticism on the two-pointers does not relate to the fact that he (not was!) a defender.

To my mind, there’s way too much cheerleading about the new rules and not anything enough in the way of critical analysis. Personally, I think we’re well on the way to making the game worse, not least given that the biggest problem (too much possession-based play) is now even bigger with the 12 v 11 nonsense.

Clare,

Rather than just agreeing with what others say.

Can you not elaborate on why you believe it's not good for game.

I would like to hear your rational for changing that rule.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but it would be good to understand why formulated that opinion.

I believe that the 2 point rule is an excellent innovation. The rules should best allow for the fullest expression of the skills of the game. Scoring in-play from distance is one of the finest skills of football. We have already seen how two of the best players in the game Shane Walsh and David Clifford have benefited from it both directly and indirectly. The fact that the rule allow these incredible talents to shine is proof of its effectiveness.

Willie Joe,

The game couldn't possibly have been worse than what has been on display at intercounty level for the past few years.

The best players getting ruined everytime they entered a pitch.

What other sport would allow it's best talents be stifled like own game had ?

2 average players became very fit and are tasked with spoiling the best player on the pitch.

All All Ireland finals that are 7 points All at HT became teams are ultra cautious.

The spirt of the game had died.

It's early days with the rules.

We all know that when the pressure ratchets up later in the year, teams will find creative ways to stifle some of them - and certain referees will lack the bottle to enforce them.

But even so, I would get rid of two things right now:
- Allowing the keeper into the opposition half. Straight away this brings us back to teams crabbing over and back to keep possession....boring. The job of a goalkeeper should be: keep the ball from going into the goal. The clue is in the name.
- Allowing free-takers to bring frees from inside the arc back outside it so that they can kick two-pointers. This is ridiculous and contrived. You don't see a basketballer who's fouled inside the three-point arc getting three foul throws.

But the rules changes don’t alter the worst problem, which is too much focus on retaining possession. That’s what has destroyed the game as a spectacle and the 12v11 makes the problem even worse. Many of the rule changes are, to my mind, solutions desperately seeking a problem when the real problem isn’t being addressed at all.

I agree Willie Joe but it's not half as bad as it was.

I suspect they'll look at the keeper situation and that may improve that situation.

The question is ask anyone who is sceptical of these rules is this.

How many good games can you remember last year?

How many memorable league games ?

Roscommon v Down
Kerry v Dublin
Kerry V Derry
Kerry v Tyrone
Mayo v Armagh
Dublin v Mayo

I could go on,

Some great games in D2.

Sorry the above are all the good games this year!

@DavyJ: "Allowing free-takers to bring frees from inside the arc back outside it so that they can kick two-pointers."

Details are important when discussing rules. This can't happen as worded.

The only time a ball can be moved outside the arc is when it has first been moved inside the arc, be it for dissent or a 3/3 breach. No foul on a player/free inside can ever be moved out.

- Room to remove the 3/3 brought outside: That was never voted on, never intended to be part of the introduction and was forced in when writing the rules to 'fix' an issue where a player could step over the halfway line to force opposition into a one point attempt when the team were trying to create a 2. This has since been resolved with a (better fix where a) breach of 3/3 now applies an 'advantage' like situation where the current phase plays out before the tap-over would be awarded. This can be dropped for sure without opening up abuse cases.

- The bringing outside from a 50m dissent advancement: Popular or not, that's here to stay. It's necessary to avoid loop-holes where fouling and dissent together can be advantageous for a team (something we can never allow into the rule-book by design). The only viable fix for this one that doesn't open up those loop-holes for cynical abuse is removing the 2 point arc entirely (plenty of pros and cons there), anything else and the 2 point free outside on dissent will (and needs to) remain.

(The biggest issue with the dissent one is how they've chosen to frame it. If the 50m penalty had always stopped at the arc with the option to carry on inside, it would never have raised the backlash that 'bringing it back outside' has. Poor initial execution & framing of the situation)

Good is a subjective term! I remain far from convinced that any good is coming from the new rules and, until something is done about constant hand passing and retention of possession, I can’t see those doubts shifting.

Ahh Willie,

How can a game like Kerry Derry that ended 5.15 to 1.24 in the depths of winter not be a good thing.

Because a glut of scores taken in isolation doesn't necessarily equate to a good thing, that's why. The main reason Kerry got all those goals was because Derry's 'keeper was an outfield player who proved not very good at the basics of goalkeeping.

Personally, i believe the reason there are non stop passages of possession is that is how players have been coached to play for so long. And it will take a while for this to change. 12 v 11, 15 v 14, whatever, it won't make much difference until the players are "re-programmed" to move the ball faster. It doesn't matter if there is space inside, if the players have been coached to always move the ball sideways & not look up or take risks.
I like the 3 v 3 (but it's absolutely ridiculous that a team can be down multiple players due to black/red cards & the other team can't use the numerical advantage). I presume this anomaly will be fixed. I'd even go 4v4 tbh.
I like the tap & go.
I like the kickout.
I like the shaving foam.
And while I like the idea of the arc, unless the goal is restored to 4 points, it should go. It devalues the goal.
Bringing a free outside the arc (3v3 infringement, for example) is ludicrous. So the arc is creating more problems than it is solving imo.

The 2 items I have disliked on the new rules after watching games is allowing the keeper into the opposition half allowing the 12 v 11 scenario arise. This is the number one thing that has to go as it would have a great impact on the style of play being used by teams. Secondly allowing to move out for a 2pt for the dissent/3V3 breach feels like a double punishment so feel that has to go to. A big bug bearer of mine has been the 3rd 4th and 5th man tackle (Eg Aiden last weekend was tackled by 5 Armagh players and it resulted in a free out against him - maddening stuff, this is a clear breach of existing rules not being applied correctly. Anymore that 2 players not tackling a player correctly should be a free to the player in possession full stop. It was reviewed for years and nothing still done about it. Even if they applied the existing rules correctly on the 'tackle' would make a big difference. It would be a great benefit to the game and would not punish the bigger talented players in our game.

I think the type of games most folks are advocating for on here would require 60 players per match. That high tempo game isn't sustainable over 70 minutes, unless we go down the "Enhanced Games" route and dope them to the 9's

I appreciate those clarifications TsuDhoNim.

The ability to bring the free outside to make it a two-pointer just doesn't sit well with me though. And as others are saying, the two-pointer option in general (from frees or from play) is now becoming so attractive that it might result in fewer teams going for goals. Which is maybe why the FRC suggested a 4-point goal in the first place.

I also agree that the 2 pointer makes the goal chance seem less exciting so either make goal a 4 pointer or scrap the 2 pointer altogether but I think they should go.

I agree with wj. The elephant in the room is not being tackled. The Possession Game. Come championship time, you have a 3 or 4 point lead, close down the shop, swing from one side of the arc to the other. Well be good at it, if we can build up a lead...

https://x.com/mayogaa/status/1895535622213026282?s=46&t=v5-NKSFD01wFEZwhM8P32A
Reid and odonoghue drop to the bench.very surprised with eod tbh.2 good games under his belt.

Number of goals is well up v last year despite the changes interestingly.

So how many rule changes can we expect come championship?
To me, it seems that most of the rule changes are largely superficial- solo and go, kick out, throw-in..... and so on.
They don't fundamentally alter the game and some of the changes are welcome.
3/3 and the 2 pointer are fundamental alterations to the game. Is there any particular reason for introducing both at the same time? You would expect a fairly conservative approach by the GAA- introduce them one at a time, so you can evaluate their impact in isolation, and act accordingly.
What we do know so far is that the rule changes has killed the notion of "form". Results are erratic. Surely the insurmountable 17-1 score line at half time in Salthill isn't how we want matches between "evenly matched" teams to play out.

Four quarters would eliminate big leads at half time but that's not going to happen

@Urmanthere: I'd expect a host of small tweaks (correcting language - basically irrelevant to anyone but refs, just making the rule-book match with what people think it already does), with a couple of more significant ones on 3/3 (for cards) and 1.11 (keeper stuff). Nothing drastic. They don't seem at all keen on sweeping changes.

As for the lack of conservatism.....

Rule changes can only be made in years divisible by 5. So making too little at once means the game could continue to decline in attendance (total attendance figures for the year look ok, but only as they dramatically increased the number of games being played - the avg profit/game is tanking nationally even with the increased ticket prices) and attention share until 2030 (or beyond).

By making many at once, they've opened the door to be able to roll back some at short notice (though, their recent statements on the matter suggesting that they're unwilling to undermine the integrity of the league making changes midway do undermine that thoroughly - I'd have serious questions about feeling it's better to go into Championship with untested rules than introducing them 2/3rds through the league). Motion 1 from the Special Congress allows them to amend or remove any of the changes quickly, whereas any 'new' changes (such as the 4 point goal) would need to go to another vote.

If Motion 7 at the recent annual congress had passed, we'd have been in a position to take more time on designing and assessing rules more carefully and doing iterative tweaks to ensure maximising results. Without that, we'll be left having to pull multiple levers at once. Which is clearly not ideal.

As for eradicating 'form'... not so much, IMHO.

It's opened up more attacking potential for sides. Then it has allowed for kickouts to be far more aggressively attacked (less space for teams to work space in and much longer kicks) combined with 2 pointers has meant the advantage from a breeze has grown significantly. Throw in our recent wind conditions (with a number of games played in +yellow weather conditions and named storms) and it has seen far greater swings between halves, but with Galway showing clearly that a team with a greater skill in those conditions can still look fairly dominant. Never a great idea to look too deeply at league form. Impossible to know who's in a heavy block of training, who's going full tilt, who have issues in the camp and who might have already hit a handbreak in certain games while targeting others.

As of now plans will be made in the Autumn a 1st Connacht football championship fixture of Mayo vs London since 2016 will now be held in 2026. Blaming Covid-19 for the absence of the 2021 fixture will be discussed in the coming months.

@WestKerry. I greatly appreciate and enjoy your regular contributions on here-it is always good to get and outside view. You state that "3v3 in itself is not sufficient to create space inside-how do we know if it hasn't been tried? IMO, this should have been trialled before considering the 2 point arc-there would have been more space, as the blanket would now only have 11 defenders instead of 14. I am against the 2 pointers, but if they have to stay, the value of the goal simply must be increased. Either way, the 2 point free should go. @Willie Joe. I completely agree with you about the FRC. It seems to be regarded by some as a sporting version of sacrilege to question any of the changes.

I completely understand that these rules are so radical that not everyone will support them.

I think we should give these rules a full year with just minor tweaks and let's see what happens.

The thing I struggle with is I do not know how to read a game and how I think it'll end.

Kerry v Dublin being a prime example.

But the barometer for me is do the best players in the game now have a proper chance to express themselves.

I think they will.