Congrats Armagh
I was listening to Marty Morrisey on the Radio
He Mentioned Damien Comer and some Seagull 15 times
Who is this Seagull he was on about ?

Sorry Damien Comer got mentioned twice but seagull 15 times

The Seagull is now in Mayo

This final reminds me of the 2021 final. Mayo and Galway expected to win the games and lost in the finish. It will take Galway a long time to get over this loss. They will be depressed for months like we were in 2021.

Someone said it had a green and red tag on its
leg

There was a wounded seagull on the pitch in front of the Cusack stand for much of the first half.
It's presence slightly interfered with play at times.
During the game, a diagnosis of a broken wing was brought to us by our RTE veterinary correspondent, Darragh Maloney.
Reports from our regional office tell us that said gull is now horshin inta chips outside Danolla's, Castle Street, Castlebar.
Thank you and, good night.

Not sure about the rest of ye, but I think there's milage in this seagull thing.......

Sunday Game panel going easy on the Galway players, no mention of Comer who was shocking ..

imagine if that was Mayo, the players wud ave been slagged off by them.

Brilliant, Joet1480!
He was on an under-cover reconnaissance mission.

Imagine…a Galway team with Comer, Tierney, Walsh anonymous, Finnerty gone after 10 minutes and Kelly injured/ ineffective, missed a bunch of simple wides…and still only lost by a point!

My point is this year was a great chance to win an AI. Good luck to Armagh..but they’re no great shakes really!

All this leaves a burning question. When are we ever going to do it? Donegal, Derry, Armagh, Down, Tyrone and Galway have all done it over the past 30 years.

When are we going to do it and stop shitting it on the big day and stop looking for excuses? When are we going to find a way to win rather than a way to lose?

One thing is for sure…it’s well past time!

Let me put it another way. There is no discernible difference between that Armagh team and ourselves in terms of raw material.

Btw, Ulster has won everything going this year. Ulster teams have occupied the final spots in the last 2 minor finals.

Why aren’t we doing better at underage level?

We are too accepting of our mediocrity and our relative under achievement?

When are we going to win it folks, when?

The actual game these days is like the “Sunday Game” on RTE. Bland, boring and very scripted. Possession based football that’s played with a fear of losing rather than just throwing the shackles off and going for it.

A poor final. Not that Armagh will care and fair play to them. I wouldn’t mind Mayo winning a “boring” final.

I wouldn’t be too sure that changing the rules will bring any great improvement in the game.theese highly paid coaches will find a way to neutralise it with even more negativity.Today’s game in the main was a dire spectacle and as with most of the current games any bit of excitement is packed into the final 6 or 7 minutes when some team realise the game is slipping away.Absolutely daft rules like the mark were introduced and kept when it’s been shown clearly that it hasn’t improved the game.look at Shane Walsh’s mark today while standing just inside the 45 .how far did that ball travel to reach Walsh???.what part of that move involved any level of skill.How many current players are capable of kicking a point from outside the 45 .it’s not something any current player has been practicing much in the last few years.We live in hope I suppose

I'm not sure that there is any good in the fact that Galway lost today, what does this tell us about Connaught teams in an All Ireland final ? Doesn't give much hope at all.

Ulster teams have won every All Ireland final this year.
Junior , Intermediate and senior club finals.
Minor, u20 and senior finals.
College final and Sigerson.
Division 1 and 2 finals
Well done

Tailteann cup as well Jr
Incredible statistics

All down to S and C I think. The Armagh minors swept our lads aside this year.

Far play Armagh. They beat Kerry so deserved it today. In the last 10-15 minutes (I was lucky to get a last min ticket) Galway reminded me of Mayo, nervous, panicking, flapping. It was painful to watch. It really was Mayo 101.
It all boils down to one day. One single solid performance. How is it that when Northern teams come to Croker on All Ireland final day with their chests puffed out?? They believe they can win. But it's fine margins, I'm sure they were nervous too, and only 1 point separated them today.
I think we'll probably beat Armagh next year if we meet them. But I wonder can we ever do what they did today? Poor Galway might now be affected by oul head problem too. Connaught eh? It's a really really bad reflection on our province with those average enough Northern teams picking up All Ireland titles.
I said it two years ago that Galway's loss to Kerry would haunt them. It will continue to because that was their real chance. In fairness to them they were very unlucky with injuries today, and that played a big part.

Swallow someone seen the seagull outside the supermacks in Tuam.

Armagh just about deserved their win . One could be cruel and say Galway “bottled” it. One could say that PJ got it wrong on the sideline. Imagine bringing on defenders for attackers when scores were needed.??.? I think Shane Walsh is a great player but I am wondering did he want to make the final about himself today rather than the team. Kicking frees with different feet, kicking frees when he had a goalie behind him who is able to slot a 50 yard free as we know too well. Galway play a very safe game. I actually thought it would be the winning of it for them but it turned out to be the losing of it for them instead. They are usually so patient and methodical and grind teams down. Galway have a reputation for flair and front foot football, but that is a historical thing. They were woefully negative under K Walsh and when PJ came in his intention was to be more attack minded but he changed his tune on that. Their patience and belief in the system saw them grind us, Dublin and Donegal down and I thought it would happen today, but Armagh were very disciplined and kept their shape and when the pressure came on Galway lost faith in the process and panicked. That is just a human failing. I have been saying all year that too much praise/ criticism is heaped on managers when it really comes down to players. We had to read the shite that PJ out smarted McStay in Connacht final. He didn’t. Their players finished strongly. Likewise PJ was lauded for getting the better of Jimmys winning matches. He didn’t. Donegal players ran out of ideas and confidence down the home straight. Likewise today Galway players only converted 3 of their last 10 chances and still just lost by a point. That was not the fault of PJ and I was merely tongue in cheek when I said that he brought on defenders when he needed attackers. Most scores today came from midfielders and defenders He couldn’t take Walsh off because despite the fact he was poor he offers a genuine threat. Galway players will be disappointed about how they played. Some of their backs, and Maher, Darcy, McDaid and Conroy were heroic and kicked fantastic scores. One final point. McGeeney won no Ulster title as manager, and failed to win a meaningful championship game for 5 years, yet Armagh kept him on. Managers need time to develop their teams and style of play. Too much chopping and changing managers is in my opinion not a good idea. Players need consistency. Joyce has had 5 years and though let down by some players today has improved Galway. Just listen to the respect Armagh players have for McGeeney. They have had incredible misfortune but stuck together and built such resilience. Fair play to them. Deserved champions.

Like Liberal, I too got a last- minute ticket - Davin stand so some of the action at the Hill end was a bit hazy.

Impressions- I’ll be honest, I wanted Armagh to win, but was far from delirious at Galway’s defeat. Spoke to a lot of Galway folk in the pub afterwards (The Palace if you must know), and I have to say they are better losers than we are. Their analysis was more mature and less bitter.

I found the game compelling. Yes, back and forth of course, but the break outs were devastating at times. I felt a goal would be a killer, and after it Armagh bossed it. Galway had an awful lot to do to overhaul a three point lead and had to take chances which didn’t suit their ultra-defensive mentality.

Finnerty proved to be a big loss, but that shouldn’t happen. Walsh’s free-taking and decision-making were shocking, especially one into the Davin in the first half and the insistence on taking long range efforts and dropping them short. PJ didn’t cover himself in glory: Sean Kelly named then didn’t start, and wasn’t fit when he came on.

Soupy had an instant impact and did most of the work for Armagh’s goal.

The big question for us is: what can we learn from today, and what could we store away for use when we get back on the big stage again?

Nothing is left to chance for next year, Williamstown Gerry - plans are already in motion to topple the All-Ireland champs and our arch rivals, Galway. Our gull found out what made them tick today and then he was comparing cuisine for our campaign in Connacht next year. Our seagull might actually be managing upwards, joining the backroom team and presenting a master-plan to McStay et al.

Have to say, I did not expect this. Galway are, in my opinion a 4 points plus better team. They absolutely bottled this one. They had some unbelievable chances and hit ridiculous wides. Make no mistake about it, this was worse than us v Tyrone in 2021. No excuses for what was a horrendous meltdown by our neighbours. Forwards completely malfunctioned. Long way back for a lot of those lads.

I agree Tommy+ Joe this was a bigger opportunity missed than us in 2021 and heaven knows it’s taken about 3 years for most of us to get the fire back in our bellies after that one and the hunger again which I certainly have after seeing today.
If you’d told anyone Armagh would only score 1-11 today, they’d all be certain Galway won the match. Galway May take some time to recover from this one

Firstly, hearty congratulations to Armagh, who are worthy champions and were the better team. It was a close game and, in many respects Galway left it behind them, with missed chances, bad wides and efforts dropped short, not completely due to Armagh pressure. Galway's supposed game hangers, Walsh and, especially Comer simply did'nt turn up on the biggest day. They have been unlucky with injuries and Finnerty going off was a big blow. And still, with the game almost won, Armagh nearly did a Mayo on it, and almost threw it away. When what they needed to see out the game was possession, what in Heaven's name possessed them to hit long 50/50 kick-out, all of which they lost. Both teams are ultra defensive and stifle the life out of forwards, but there was one big difference-Armagh from turnovers and all possession, even their kick-outs, broke up field at pace and in numbers(Mayo take note), whereas Galway, in direct contrast, persisted in slow predictable lateral build-up(again similar to Mayo). Also Armagh varied their play with long kick passes and I could'nt understand why Galway did'nt mix it up with more long balls up to Comer.

Not a great game but hats off to Armagh nevertheless. Sometimes the weight of expectation on big players proves debilitating. I actually felt sorry for Walsh at one stage - his expression of anguish told its own story. Good luck to them now because neither will be contesting next yrs final IMO.... Donegal v whomever.

I believe the Armagh crowd played a small part in their success. I first noticed their noise in 22 . Malachy Clerkin describes the setting very well .

“All around was delirium, the rumble and riot of an All-Ireland famine ended, the noise and whoosh of a county unchained. Armagh, All-Ireland champions for only the second time in their history. Orange fizzing everywhere, the Hill looking like a Fanta explosion in a bouncy castle.”

Well done Armagh but Galway will rightly feel they bottled this one. Bloody awful spectacle tbh though Armagh won't mind that. So many top players out there but not given the freedom to express themselves .
Galway may feel a bit aggrieved in truth they rode their luck against Sligo,Mayo and Dublin so maybe it just ran out in the end.

You’re not wrong, Seán. They’re great, raucous, devil-may-care supporters and they really make themselves heard. My son and I were up on the terrace in Clones with them for an Ulster match in 2019 and it was wild. Their best line that day was “Armagh’s better than your Ma!”

I never witnessed anything like it here in Dublin after the game yesterday, the loudest supporters ever to leave Croker with a win.

I don't think people are giving Armagh enough credit for the win yesterday and more or less saying Galway handed to them.

Some of Armagh's points were very good, long range, players attacking from deep, players such as Ryan O Neill, the Captain, the wing forward and the midfield, all top scores.

I mentioned the words, balls and bottle here on Saturday, that's what we saw yesterday.

I have seen a lot of posts saying Galway did a Mayo on it and just can’t accept that & its an insult to a lot of past Mayo players who played those finals - thinking back to those final of ‘16/‘17 especially while I might have been disappointed at final whistle, Mayo turned up and were brave and I was always proud of the team leaving Croke Park even with the heartbreak.
It might be compared to ‘21 but I think Galway’s meltdown yesterday was even worse than that.

Armagh were brave and their supporters were brave and had belief. Watching on the telly yesterday the Armagh supporters, I said to my family no way would we be still cheering as they were when 1 point up for last 10 mins of All Ireland final, I would be crumpled up in a ball - hopefully it’s a lesson.

I'm loathe to use the word 'bottled' as it always bristles when applied to Mayo but it's hard to get away from that word for Galway yesterday, game was there for them, they owned the football but the panic and fear they played with especially in the last 10 minutes was very Mayoesque

Walsh and comer were terrible, for all their talent they are almost liabilities when they play like that. I think pj has a big decision to make going forward about dropping one of them because you can't have 2 enigmas on the pitch.

Tierney hasn't been getting the flak the above 2 have but I have to say I really don't rate him at all. He is generally anonymous against the top teams

Felt sorry for conroy and maher who were both immense though. Conroy is still poty for me

As for armagh, incredible resilence from them all year, Grimley an inspirational figure. Their bench delivered again and geezer deserves huge credit for discovering breakout star oisin conaty and polishing rough diamonds like crealey and McCambridge. Forker is hard to like at times but what a leader, everything you want in a captain

Congrats to ard mhacha. What a year of dominance from ulster. Connaught football abject by comparison

Eammon Sweeney does not hold back in his article in the Independent today either.

As a matter of interest as it can be difficult to tell from tv but what was the Galway support like yesterday.while I agree with Sean Burke that the Armagh support made a difference I just don’t know how you get a mayo crowd going .The way we play is simply boring and i think all of the defeats over the years have made people almost afraid to shout

The only take away for us from this is that next year is absolutely possible.

There’s a narrative starting already that Galway panicked and ‘bottled’ it yesterday.
I don’t believe that’s a fair assessment. I think Galway’s system let them down against an Armagh team that had prepared for them.
Galway were pinned within their own system against a heavily defensive Armagh. They didn’t have enough flexibility or options and were hampered. That’s always a recipe for disaster. Mayo has suffered this a lot against heavily defensive teams. They found it hard to score enough.
Crucially, on the other hand, Armagh had 1) speed 2) gave unpredictable diagonal cross field passes 3) had a few rehearsed moves to cut out the blanket - the one with Stefan Campbell and the full back leading to the goal, and the later two-touch move from goalie to out-field player resulting in a point.
Something like the latter two moves can set up an advantage that a team can sail on from.
That said, it’s hard to know what caused Walsh’s difficulties yesterday. It’s one of those things. Conroy and Maher almost compensated with their scores.

Similar to Supermac,, there’s something about the words “bottled it” that really grates me. It’s been a label thrown at numerous Mayo teams and players threw the years which drove me demented then The usual suspects are throwing it out such as Eamonn Sweeney (who I recall wrote a very unfair article on Rochford years ago)

I accept the players under form due to mental pressure of the occasion so I don’t deny that aspect. It’s just the words bottled it, I feel there is such a nasty inference in there

I'm delighted for the people of Armagh. They are great supporters, even if they are a little overheated and aggressive at times.

But its not a good day for football.

The game has changed completely now. Comer is getting a lot of heat, but Turbitt (Armagh's top scorer) was equally bad. And I wouldn't blame the players.

The game now suits picking three extra midfielders/half backs than a full forward line. Full forward lines have no space anymore.

I always take a keen interest in who scored what in an All Ireland final because it really shows who steps up on the biggest stage. There was one score from play from the 6 players in the full forward lines. 9 points from play came from midfield.

We need to fix this. Not everyone is 6 ft 3 and athletic. The game needs to be for everyone.

It’s very true about supporters. Mayo fans rarely get fully behind their team when really needed. It’s almost like fear grips us coming down the home straight. We almost appear to be holding our breath, hoping and praying but not really supporting. I suppose that’s a consequence of all the failure. If our supporters are like that , its only natural that some players feel somewhat similar at those moments - the fear of making a costly error.. In loads of tight games in Croke Park we have gone fairly silent when we needed to be noisy. JH referenced it after an AI final and even McStay passed a comment about it this year. It’s all very well to say it’s hard to be enthused by lateral passing etc . Well Armagh are not the most adventurous team in the world. They can be quite negative and after the goal yesterday they really went into their shell and Galway had every chance to beat them. But the Armagh noise coming down from the stands was constant and that really must be of benefit to the players rather than the moans, groans and relative silence that often accompanies our team in the crucial minutes.

I'm not sure about the supporters debate and the talk about the 16th man etc etc. Look at Kerry their fan's only get enthused on final day and it hasn't held them back over the years. If support feeds into building desire of the team then it has to help but at the end of day its the 15 on the field (especially in that last 10 minutes) determines the outcome. The players have to want it.

What hasn’t been mentioned yet is that Armagh hit very few wides, I can only remember a free in the first half (which was very scorable) and the shot that came back off the upright at the very end. Otherwise, the Armagh attack was very economical, especially in comparison with Galway’s so-called “marquee forward line”.

If we were in that position, we’d be looking to try to win off a 40 per cent conversion rate, which seldom happens. It’s why we don’t win All-Irelands.

The other thing is that Armagh’s defensive structure didn’t give a sniff of a goal chance up for the entire 76 minutes. It’s not pretty, but it’s mighty effective, and I’d certainly take it over the “Mayo way”, which is a topsy-turvy game in which we concede three goals and lose by a point. Again.

If we can find a way to tighten up a little in defence, maybe add a bit of zip to the way we move the ball going forward, then we won’t be too far away. I don’t think that either of those teams have a huge amount of excess talent to ourselves, but their structures are better. I still find it difficult to make out what type of football we are trying to play.

There isn’t an outstanding team around at the moment, as there was in the previous decade. The Dubs, Kerry, Galway, ourselves, and several Ulster sides will be in the shake up in the next few years.

If Oisín Mullin doesn’t get much game time next year at Geelong, we’d be mad not to keep the lines of communication open.

In exile but Kerry have 38 all irelands .

Look , let’s try it as an experiment next year for one game in Mchale park . We will have one important game in the round robin , why not just throw off the shackles and go bananas in the bacon factory end for one game , call it our sand box game for vocal support .

The Mayo support & the team I'd a 2 way street. I haven't been to many games these past few years as I have a young family, but I was as passionate as anyone prior to that. The football we play is absolutel dross & no point painting it any other way. It's not even winning football, so its very difficult to roar that on.

Please WJ & co if you are going to be interviewing McStay, ask him what we are going to do next year to ensure we are there at the business end of the championship. There were no hard luck stories. We didn't close out games this season because we were incapable of it because of our approach. We need to fix that. Patience is fine at times, but when we have momentum, bloody use it!

@Sean Burke: I do think a raucous atmosphere makes a difference at home. MacHale Park was a cauldron against Donegal in 2019 and the team fed off of that. Also in a lot of the tight qualifier games we had back in the 2010s, the team credited the vocal Mayo support with helping them over the line. That’s something that’s been lost in recent years.

In fairness to the Mayo fans, it's hard be chanting and vocal every time they go out.. It doesn't work like that.. When you've been used to nothing but heartbreak and disappointment in finals. 89, 96,97,04,06,12,13,16,17,20,21..to notwin just one of those, the straw being 21 I'd imagine. Mayo supporters do enough, but there's also an onus on the team to get the supporters going. So I wouldn't be asking too much, they do enough.

@Sean Burke - I'd be on for giving that a try especially the idea of packing one end of the field like the Dubs do. I went to as many games as I could this year but there are so many now with the League, Championship and all very close together. KMS talked about the 'Mayo roar' but if you've only got 10,000 at a game hard to get the momentum. Also what do Mayo fans want? Do we want to play beautiful football and loose or do what it takes to win. Some might say we are doing neither at that moment but look at KMG/Armagh it took 10 years to get there and fans needed patience. In year 3 there will be pressure on this Management team but I think we are going in the right direction. In year 1 we won the league but peaked to early. year 2 we peaked too late perhaps but with a bit of tweaking in year 3? We are not too far off!

Some of the stuff walsh was at yesterday was baffling and it seemed to deflate his team and the fans.

- the kickable free he opted to take on his right foot in 1st half that he spooned
- turning down a very kickable free in front of the hill midway through second half before claiming and attempting a far more difficult mark from way out in the wing a minute later,which ended up in a decisive Grimley score
- again in the second half after yet another miraculous turnover and burst from maher sile feeds walsh who gets blocked down needlessly

When he is good he is brilliant (2022) but when he is bad he is absolutely wretched

@Supermac I wouldn't pick on any particular player yesterday. SW had an off day, we all have those where little works. In 2022 SW had a great day, everything worked. That's the way it goes. Overall the Galway forward line had an off day yesterday. I heard some pundits saying why didn't Galway have a go at a few of those 50% shots but people are human and if you miss some of those and the confidence begins to sap out. That's why the Dub's in their heyday only ever took on the 70/80% shots. I remember the old days of Mayo blasting shots wide. Eventually the belief of the players and fans goes, its a fine balance of chance and calculation.

@Supermac: I wonder if the move to Dublin affected him? He hasn’t consistently hit the heights of 2022 since the move to the capital, maybe Kilmacud’s long runs in the club championship and the commute has affected his freshness a bit.

Means little to us tbh but if we are to learn things for me Galway lost there nerve when it was in the melting pot . Their body language wasn’t as tenacious as armaghs , Armagh were frighin pumped

The comparisons with our game v tyrone in 21 and yesterday's game are uncanny from a galway point of view.

Both teams, Galway and mayo, going in as most peoples favourites.

Both team owning the ball for huge periods but picking terrible shot selection poor execution, marquee players not turning up on the day

Being punished by economical, quality finishers and an opposition who got better impact off their bench

I believe this one is going to leave a signal scar on galway the same way '21 is still affecting mayo

21 won’t matter a bit next year lads , we need to quit that notion . I’m genuinely excited about the prospect of winning an all Ireland . It will be hard won next year but we have a decent chance if we can identify where we went wrong in them three games Galway /dubs and Derry and rectify . We have players that are improving all the time , I fancy us to bring in some good men over the next 3/4 yrs too . It all just needs knitting together, I just sincerely hope the men in charge believe Mayo can win the all Ireland soon .

Next year comes with a health warning though , anyone who thinks Kerry and the jacks are just happy to lie down for a while are away with the fairies , they are not as big a force I agree but that still doesn’t mean they won’t win Sam . McGuinness will be planning already also you can bet your house on that .

Can ye please stop listing out Mayo All Ireland losses since 1989, it was Galway that lost yesterday.
I wasn't at the game yesterday but I wonder did the Galway inside forwards receive rough treatment from Armagh defenders off the ball.

Like D Clifford in last year's final Walsh took on the responsibility to get the scores to win for Galway, his point from play in the second half was great to see.

Unfortunately the role of honour is like this,
Galway lost 15 finals in football and 20 in Senior Hurling.
Mayo lost 15 in football.

How can Connaught teams improve on this statistic ?

It is wide open next year but the games certainly won’t be. Armagh will now be copied because they won. Donegal will get slicker and tighten up at the back even more. Down are coming with a similar system. The sight of fellas walking in the middle of the pitch and making hand signals to call set plays is very worrying. One of the main reasons McHugh, Silke, Darcy, Conroy are Galways main scorers. The days of an inside forward receiving a 50/50 pass winning it out in front, taking on the man and scoring are gone for a while. Most inside forwards now win the ball and come back out with it. The worst part about it….i see it now in underage matches at club level. 15 lads around the D and young lads getting turned over. Winning justifies it but if it’s Armagh v Donegal in next years final I won’t be forking out €100 to see it.

We have as good a chance as anyone at winning the All Ireland next year. In fact, I believe we have a better chance than most.
There is no dominant team out there, certainly nothing like the Dubs 5-in-a-row team, and all the teams have strengths and weaknesses which on any given day can be exposed. We have one of the youngest squads in the country and if we can add 2 or 3 fresh forwards to that, get Paddy back for championship, keep AOS in form and fitness then I wouldn't fear anyone.

Ah look im not usually negative but it's worrying indeed.. There's just no enjoyment in watching football at the moment. Hopefully rule changes make a difference, according to Eamon Fitz on Sunday game it will be soon

Bate the Blanket. Armagh won fair and square. No issue with any off the ball stuff or refereeing decisions. Rian O’Neill kicked a screamer in front of me, that’s the difference unfortunately. Grimleys shot hits the inside of the post and goes over, Dylan McHugh hits the outside of the post and goes wide. That’s sport.

@Pebbles I agree. A few tweaks; better execution of long range points, left footed free taking, we can score goals, an improving back line, nice balance of youth and experience and making Castlebar a winning home ground. This is a good a chance as any we will have in 2025. Come on Mayo!!

The positive is we look to be a more democratic decade like the 90s, so far this decade already we have had 4 different winners already in tyrone, Armagh, dublin and kerry.

The last 2 winners have come out of division 2.

Yesterday every team in the top 8/10 (including ourselves) should be thinking to themselves "why not us?"

Kerry and Dublin are firmly back in the pack now, the question is which teams are going to have the balls and ability to grasp the nettle. There is now a kick of a ball between all those teams.

That has to be a good thing

....one obvious learning from the final is we badly lack in long range shooters.
In a game with 2 deep lying defences yesterday the scores were all long range screamers conroy x3, the o neill brothers, Grimley, Crealey all with raking long range scores.

Do we have those players in the county. If so we need to play them and develop them.

The long range shooting will hold us back until we find fellas that can do it consistently. The day of the Marquee forward has gone if the game continues in this style.

This year highlights that knee jerk reactions a couple of years into a rebuild is folly. McGeeney would have been hounded out of the Mayo job years ago.

We have players who can score from range. Durcan, Flynn, Carney, Boland, Towey, ROD, Loftus, Cillian are all able to score from distance. But I don't think they are allowed to shoot unless it's a "high percentage" shot.

We could do a lot worse than sack the stats team. Stats are only good if you use them to your advantage. Unless we were ruthless efficient in front of the goal (which we aren;t), then we need to create & take on as many opportunities as we possibly can. This bullshit of getting 20 shots off in a game will never work for us. Unless we tighten the defence to a level I've never seen us do. Armagh defended well yesterday & deservedly won, but Galway had so many opportunities that were squandered.

Sean Burke - I agree & we should believe we can win. The 1st step for the players & management is to believe they can win it. If they don't believe it, it will never happen. All Irelands are earned, they don't get handed out to you. We need to address why we had so many close failures this year. It has to be addressed & rectified for next season.

One small highlight for me that caught my attention was the Connaty interview in the hotel when he said they were told at minor level there was an all Ireland in them , I can’t remember who he said fed that to him (former Armagh player anyway ) but it obviously meant something for him to quote it .

I know I’m a bit of a dreamer /romancer but I believe in the quality of footballer we produce . I remember working with a Kerry man many moons ago , an uncle of Declan o Sullivan actually (he’s passed now ) but he always said to me even in the most lean times for mayo football they always produced quality footballers but just lack that full belief . Granted it was before 13-17 period but it always stuck in my brain , he was a very knowledgeable football man .

We see now great excitement with a cohort of 18-20 yr olds , Hurley , Beirne , forry , Kobe etc but we need to stick with these lads make them winners , go and full throttle to win the under 20 all Ireland next year for a start , we left the minor title behind us with said group . Then put proper resources into doing everything in our power to add them to senior panel in 26/27 .

Fantastic win by Armagh I just saw a pic of Armagh for sam truck that was set in fire last night pretty pathetic and sad and they had the orange order march through there to yesterday.

Doubt they will let that dampen their win hope they have a great celebration!

As for next year we have just as much a chance as anyone just need to change a few things and hopefully have Durcan back to!

@Mayo Focus - its fine to take on shots and miss if you are winning the kick out from the restart. If you are not then the miss not just zaps the confidence from the team but also hand's the ball back to the opposition. Mayo's mid field has a mixed result on opposition kick outs.

@Sean Burke - its not enough to believe you can win that is just the 2nd part of the equation. The first part is you have to really want to win at all cost and do whatever is necessary to win. You think of the training hardship the Donegal team went through in 2012, the way Dublin pulled down almost the whole Mayo team in the final minute of an all Ireland and the losses Armagh went through before winning yesterday.

the team that kicked ball more (and only just) won the match. Rian O'Neill pass to guy that was doubled marked, was caught an scored by armagh. Playing Comer and not kicking ball too him for two all-ireland final, is tactical mistake. Galway had a lot of luck this year, against mayo some soft free at end, got them over line, against dublin, Con O'C never misses the shot he missed at end of Galway match. And today got some unluck with finnerty going off, think if he on field, I would have to hid for weeks, living and working in Galway. Need luck to win all-ireland, Mayo conceding two own goals, C'OC and AOS, injuring each other in match. Ball bouncing over bar.

Valid point in exile . We need a good seller who can get everyone to buy into it for a start . I just hope mcstay has a big enough personality to do so . Project Mayo is a bigger job than any , everyone has failed so far in the modern era , the long wait has weighed us down and it gets a heavier load by the year , it’s not as simple as kicking a door off its hinges with our history , it will take a bulldozer effort and smash the whole house to the ground that’s been there since 1951 . And them old houses were built more solid .

Fair & valid points In Exile - but we commit so many men forward (a lot of the time needlessly), that we should be well set to press the kickout.

Pebblesmeller, THIS:
“all the teams have strengths and weaknesses which on any given day can be exposed.”

I agree strongly with you on this.

That is what will beat the blanket. Get in around it, upturn it.
Then play your own game and run them off the pitch. We should be rampant next year.
But only if you find the weaknesses of the opponent and expose them quick and early.
Armagh did this marginally better than Galway yesterday.

@Clare: It is indeed pathetic and sad, but when your culture (such as it is) is built almost exclusively on hatred, when all you’ve got is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail. I don’t believe that the proposed OO march up there went ahead, fortunately.

I am grateful that we have the GAA and all its offshoots to express our culture positively down here. What Armagh and particularly Crossmaglen Rangers have achieved is incredible, given the hostility that they are regularly subjected to.

The above and, as Chesneychet or Tuamstar said last week, get Paul Towey on the field and get him a run of games across the League.
Get the lad scoring. Use his talent and strength, which is not in debate. We need to be using our lads’ strengths, playing to our strengths.
I’d also like to see Bob Tuohy really playing assertively next year. This is another lad with definite strengths that are not made up or invented.

Swallow swoops agree they should be given a run. But there are serious caveats over both at IC level.

If Kevin McStay does one only one thing this winter let him get in the 2 or 3 best left footed kickers in the County and just get them kicking frees.Maurice Sheridan made a career out of been a sole free taker while contributing absolutely nothing from play.

Sean Burke - did you notice the power and pace of Conaty out on the field. At 21 years of age he has the S and C to win dirty ball and carry it past players and break the tackle. We have lads 4-5 years into out S and C programme and they haven't put on an ounce of muscle, pace or power.
All the Armagh lads are on a different level S and C wise compared to the Mayo players- and the only people asking the questions why seem to be people on the blog here.

My prediction. With 50% certainty. i.e. I think this can happen, I'd be a higher certainty if GAA mgmt teams were braver.
The winner of the All Ireland next year will be the competitive team (Top 8) that is most well prepared on the new rules. It will need modern, pushing boundaries mgmt ticket to do it. It could incorporate elements such as:
- Sacrificing some elements of preparation to focus a higher % on the players being able to play effectively to the rules.
- Best researching and implementing how in a 9 month timeframe the players will best understand the rules automatically
- Working a higher % with referees and playing more challenge games and refreed in-house games than usual
- Your fringe players playing more club games so they play more games under the new rules
- Influencing your 15/21/26/34 selections based on the new rules.
A lot of the new ruiles will come in as Jarlath Burns is the GAA President and he will ensure there are no hurdles.
The current sandbox games will determine what is working and not working.
Frankly I will be p*ssed off if there is already a team out there stealing a march on us with their new rules prep for next year. Just saying "Oh we don't know" is a cop out and no, there is not going to be plenty time to prepare after they've been officially brought in.
What can be done now is the research on how best to structure the 2025 preparations and panel selection for these rules.
Armagh have two colour blind players and it influences their jersey selection. It's little nuggets like this that get the panel of players to really believe in the mgmt.

JP agree fully on preparing for the potential new rules. But these rules are only being tried out at present, they could be amended & it will only be I think around November when we know when for sure what is going to be coming in for 2025.

But at the very least, we should be getting briefed from James Horan & having some in house games trying out all these possible rules. These rules could genuinely change the way the game is played, so we need to be ready for it.

@Bate The Blanket - I was there and didn't see much off the ball stuff. Issue for Galway was their forward line just had no space, if the ball wasn't going in quick it couldn't go in.

That's just the modern game now unfortunately.

Thanks, Gizmo.
Can we work around those reservations at all?

@Southmayo Exile, In my view our players senior leadership group would be well entitled to go to mgmt and basically pass the message that young players are coming into the panel significantly off the SnC of other competitive counties. I've been beating this drum for years.
Look at the build of Aidan Forker. Do you think he'd be any bloody good over an 800m race? He'd be slow as Christmas compared to even any club runner. By contrast Mayo have several players who are club runner standard over middle and long distance, we've had several panellists who competed in national athletics for middle and distance.
Now, I don't think Aidan Forker is an amazing athlete, my point is he's been developed to his most effective level for Gaelic football fitness.
Colm Boyle went off and made himself bigger and stronger outside of Mayo SnC. I'm seeing too many Mayo players especially in the middle third and you look at their legs, back and shoulders and it's simply not there. You don't have to be big, but you need a pair of legs under you and you need power per pound.
Seeing Rian O'Neill on the TV last night, he's probably suprisingly light, but you're running into dense muscle and you can see most his weight is in his legs so he can twist and turn for a tall man.

Criticism of Galway in the final is deserved.
It is amazing how the narrative of the best panel in Ireland can change so quickly.
What percent posession did Galway have.
Lots of players passing the ball instead of having a go.
Gleeson should have taken man and ball for the goal.
He refused to come forward for a late free which Walsh then passed backwards.
Bringing von Kelly was a big mistake.

@Bate The Blanket – I was there and didn’t see much off the ball stuff. Issue for Galway was their forward line just had no space, if the ball wasn’t going in quick it couldn’t go in. That’s just the modern game now unfortunately.

Apologies Willie Joe, forgot my correct Username with the last comment!

Galway are now starting to feel the hurt what Mayo have gone through. Soft AI left behind them similar to Mayo 21. This will knock them back 3-4 years . Walsh Conroy and Comer be struggling now going forward. Time for Mayo to make hay next season and get it right. Win Connaught and gain momentum. Mayo for Sam 25

@ Robe Green & Red - starting to feel the hurt. However since 2004 we have been in 8 finals and they have been in 2 so a bit more hurt to go yet. I agree time for us to make hay (or silage will do), as long as we win. Would Andy Moran joining the Mgt. team bring a bit more innovation to our forward play and help us unlock the tight defenses?.

No way back for Joyce after that AI final loss. I’d say he’d wish O Mahony was over them again. 2 losses instead of 2 wins

The dogs on the street knew how Armagh were going to setup. Could believe what i was watching, slow lateral handpassing by Galway across the pitch. Armagh were there to be got at as there setup was more zonal as opposed to blocking up the D. This game was lost on the sideline, if they had copied Dublins tactic (under Gavin) of beating this system all they had to do is maintain possesion along the sidelines and have players running of the shoulder at pace and allowing them to get scores off or frees. It wasn't rocket science, huge opportunity missed when the championship was so poor this year

@Joe 2 its easier said than done. In the 2021 final we knew exactly what Tyrone would bring, they had shown their hand against Kerry a few weeks earlier and we couldn't counteract. Galway should have been well aware of the zonal defense and how to counteract it, after all wasn't that the cornerstone of Kevin Walsh's approach, in fact I think he wrote a book on it.

It's gut wrenching to lose an All Ireland by a point..Particularly when players are capable of better..As much as the thought of Galway winning gave me no joy it was not pretty watching them squander chances..I imagine the wasteful play particularly towards the end will give them nightmares..Delighted for Mc Geeney. He hasn't had it easy as Armagh manager..

Galway are an bit overrated for the past few years in my opinion. Living on history of teams Joyce played on and before. Since when do their ‘amazing forwards’ shoot the lights out?! Since when do they regularly show guts, bravery and passion? Yes they bottled it a bit yesterday like we did in 2021 and maybe 2006. But I’d argue they were never all that in the first place. They should be but they are not because as a whole they are not ballsy enough and too defensive.

What I saw of Armagh from about 48 mins on versus Kerry in semi had me pretty sure Armagh were not going to lose the final. More heart and guts. I had question marks over Galway if Armagh passion came to play. I didn’t think they would live with it.

I first saw Armagh support in Drumcondra/Dorset st last time they won in 2002. I lived in Drumcondra so myself and my Galway friend used party with the match crowds from 96 to 2006 whether mayo or Galway were playing or not. Such fun! I actually found Armagh support scary/intimidating at the time. Mental then too!! I started to admire the new Armagh though when we played them up in Newry a few years ago. Armagh girl beside me when we played them in The Hyde was such a vocal supporter. She told me her friend heard her shouting on the tv once!!! I’d believe it. I like them and their support now. A bit like ourselves but they are crazier.

When Armagh do go forward they remind me of our old selves. Exciting. I wish they would do more of it like I wish for Mayo. And I like their story and heart. I slept very well last night. No noisy neighbours.

@In Exile: I don’t think we necessarily struggled with Tyrone’s defensive setup, as such, in 2021. We scored 15 points, which would have been enough to win yesterday.

If you count the penalty, we probably created four goal chances, some of which we were more gilt-edged than others. But we missed them all. We also missed maybe three or four point chances from more or less in front of the posts that day.

You don’t win Sam when that happens.

We struggled to win any aerial ball at midfield too and made their centerfield partnership look like superstars.

I would say that the Horan regime was a little bit less proactive than our present setup in terms of tailoring game plans to the opposition, though.

@JP your 100% right on the money there regarding S&C. The mayo lads need to bulk up and quickly. I don’t think we ever replaced the quality of Barry Solan when he stepped away. You could see yesterday the power of both teams. In all fairness Armagh as built like tanks but can still cover the ground. What’s even more interesting is that their S&C coach is a woman. And I’m not one but trying to be sexiest when I say that but it’s just not that common to see. But fair play to her she has done an outstanding job. Geezer knows all about strength and shape so I’d say he had a big say in S&C too.

Do mayo need to go back to the drawing board a bit and look for bigger more physical players? We aren’t a small team but we seem to be lacking some level of aggression or bite. It’s hard to put your finger on exactly. In fairness to JH he had a good S&C set up during his first time in charge but it seems to have stalled since. Maybe lads need to build up a different type of strength other than just weights too.

WJ….please do a podcast on S&C…why are our underage teams under-developed physically? Why are some of our senior lads, now in the 21-23 category not in correct shape. There are 21 year olds from other counties in much better physical condition. The fact that Gardiner highlighted S&C and Nutrition in his Co board “review” despite saying 4 months ago that no stone has been left unturned, is particularly galling. I don’t want to make him the fall guy because that would be unfair but, like who is charge of this? At senior AND more importantly in the 17-21 age category. Younger even. Armagh minors bullied us off the pitch this year and Monaghan minors in 2021 made our minors look like national school children.

This is such a critical topic. The podcast is great but there’s a real opportunity to ask the hard questions and at the very least highlight this obvious deficiency in Mayo football.

@It means nothing - I don’t disagree with all of that but what sticks out in mind from the 2021 final are Mayo lads running kamikaze style into 2 or 3Tyrone defenders and getting swallowed up ice and over again.

@Mayonaze S&C is important but nothing like developing the basic skills of the game. Limerick hurlers have been the kings of S&C but it was great to see nippy Clare hurlers this year flicking the ball around this year. And what a cracker of a final that was compared to yesterday’s.

I hear you, Mayonaze! We're sorting out the podcast schedule for the coming weeks at the minute so will consider this request in that context.

Clare hurlers have an elite Polish SnC coach and visibly have the correct build.
You can look at a player moving around and simply see if they've go that strong but lean build.
Running technique also linked to flexibility. Yer not going to be able to have a long stride if you can't extend out straight your trailing leg. You coukf see on recent u20 teams lads who really didn't look like they'd been developed. Unable to power off strongly from a standing start.

Has Croke Park settled on new rule changes? The lads on the pod were talking about 4pts for a goal. 2pts for score outside the d-zone and 3 players inside opposition 45 at all times. They gave the impression that these are a go. Is there anything definite on this? and if they do go ahead which teams would they benefit most? Regular reliable scorers from distance would be worth their weight in gold as would goal scorers. Equally being able to defend properly out the field to limit chances should help to open up the whole game. No point in packing players in side 30 mts or so.

Nothing is brought in yet but the FRC shared the rules that are being trialled. I was disappointed no pass to the goalie was not part of that. It's the lack of chaos from turnovers that is hurting entertainment value.

Great scenes in Armagh today they definetly know how to party fauevplay to them!

I think the championship will be wide open for a few years now to as I said we've just as much chance as anyone next year and I'm sure our guys will be looking at yesterday thinking the same they will still be pissed off at the way we went out so I hope it gives them motivation to go extra hard next year.

@Mayonaze agree with you on the S&C issue..

The problem is we will still have the same issues next year.No ball winnning midfielders and no defined defensive system.we constantly moved players around in defensive positions this year when consistenty is needed.looking back on yesterday it was two fairly average teams and a goal was always going to be crucial.Armagh didn’t really know how to close it out and left Galway in the game right up to their last attack.we have played at a much higher level in alot of finals and it just wouldn’t fall our way.Neither Tyrone or Armagh were anything special but yet somehow they have sneaked in and nabbed an all Ireland

Watched the final again, you would be livid if you were a Galway supporter.
Even having Kelly on the match day panel was a risk compounded by bringing him in.
Not having a back up free taker, where have we heard that before?
Where was the best panel in Ireland?
I think Galway were over confident.
They played far too safe and over complicated their attack.
Gleeson refusing to come to take a late free and Walsh then playing it backwards says it all.

Armagh showed all the steely determination and strength of character yesterday that you need to win an All Ireland final. Their game plan worked to a T, they were ruthless in defence and they had leaders all over the pitch. They took their chances and held their nerve in the final stages. It wasn’t a great game to watch but Armagh will care little about that. It’s tough on Galway but they didn’t have the answers when Armagh asked them the tough questions.

We have a huge amount of work to do if we are going to be serious contenders next year. Our defence might have improved this year but it’s a long way off the defensive structure , sheer work rate and physicality we saw from Aidan Forker and the other Armagh players yesterday. We need to see other leaders emerge as we looked rudderless when Aidan was taken off this year and that’s worrying. There has to be a proper review of this season by the county board and there will have to be changes to McStays management team. We need hard nosed and ruthless leadership if we are going to progress next year. Armagh showed us the way yesterday.

@Finding Sam there absolutely needs to be changes to the backroom team. But will there be?

Standing still at this juncture, when we are looking at a wide open championship for a couple of years, would be absolute madness. Tough decisions need to be made on this. We can't stand still

@finding Sam & @ mayo focus fully agree we need changes to our back ground team I have a feeling it'll be the same but. We really need changes. Mcstay deserves 1 more chance it but changes need to be made.

I had a nightmare Saturday night. Galway won and we were playing them in the first round of the league. We had to give them a guard of honour before game.

If Mcstay remains as manager he must be allowed to have the backroom staff he wishes and not to be told to shake up his backroom staff. I believe the armagh supporters got armagh over the line yesterday. Mayo supporters have to improve greatly for 2025 to give the Mayo team a good chance to win Sam.

Here is the interesting thing about the backroom team - if Rochford goes than that most likely means his forwards coach from Corofin will move on considering the link there. Amazing how different the backroom team will look from the one that got the job. Honestly as well someone needs to do a cost benefit analysis on Buckley. The expenses he’s collecting to come from Kerry doesn’t exactly seem to be paying dividends. As a few have said before, I think he’s well by his sell by date, at least with Mayo. But then again we are 100% the makers of our own misery rehiring people who have proven to be unable to land Sam. You’d get no odds on James Horan round 3 tomorrow morning if McStay suddenly stepped down. And I’m sure our CB would have no problem going for it too.

Jimbo - out of interest do you think it’s appealing for people to go into the backroom team now? Half way through his term, no real signs of improvement. A few of the key players at the back end of their career. Paddy missing for at least the league next year. A lot of trap doors for people considering it, not to mention the time it takes up in their lives.

@Swallow Swoops
I've long since championed Toweys cause and would argue that if we'd have brought him on at the end of normal time against Derry instead of at half time in extra time when we were 3 points down then we'd have beaten them.
He needs minutes in the league and even if he doesn't end up a regular starter he is some option from the bench.
He needs more game time as simple as that.

I dont think its the S and C at Senior level, Conor Finn is rated by some past players as top class at what he does unless its not too stale as he been there nearly a decade now, not so sure about the Minor and the Under 20s S and Cs though.
I think its the type of player we are picking, there not near as aggressive as Lee Keegan has said several times, no dogs in the backs at all bar Paddy Durcan and maybe McBrien.

Jack Coyne not aggressive enough

Stephen Coen slow and not aggressive enough too lateral with his passing

Rory Brickenden way too nice, very good defender in terms of reading the game getting a hand in and passing.

Jack Carney too nice and too safe on the ball , can be very lateral at times.

Fergal Boland not aggressive and physical enough to get on the ball enough to dictate a game.

Conor Loftus not aggressive enough and can be poor defensively.

Eoghan McLaughlin some of the basic skill execution not consistent enough

Galway did not become a bad team overnight just because they lost by a point. PJ ( and I am no great fan of his )did not become a bad manager because a number of his players did not play well on the day. McGeeney ( whom I admire for his resilience and belief) did not become a master tactician over night. It took him 10 years to get over the line. Everyone is very wise in hindsight. A big majority here including myself predicted a Galway win. For me it was based on the quality of their full forward line, some huge men around the middle and a decent defence.. The defence was ok, the big men around the middle did very well but the full forward line turned out to be their Achilles heel. Finnerty unfortunately had to leave the field and as a result in somewhat typical fashion has been elevated in stature as Galway bemoan his injury. Comer did not have a good game but maybe if Galway kicked a few balls in to him like they always do v Mayo, then he might have had a greater impact.Walsh simply had a very poor game and at times seemed to want to win it on his own instead of making decisions in the interest of the team. I still would not have taken him off as he has a fantastic skill set and his point From play was excellent. If I was to blame PJ for anything it’s their negative lateral style though it served them well all year and might have worked yesterday if some of their forwards clicked. They are a fairly negative team and didn’t really go after Armagh, also a negative team. Coming near the end Galway panicked and human failings crept in as they only scored 3 of their last 10 shots. We have seen something similar with Mayo on numerous occasions. Players lose their nerve in the crucial moments. Still they lost by 1 and if McHugh (great player) had scored instead of hitting the post ( a bit like Cillian in 2017) todays narrative might be a bit different. One final point - who McStay has on his management team should be up to himself. That was the bullshit which caused Johnno to leave Mayo in the early 1990s and we all know how that turned out. Co Board must have faith in the chosen management and give them a proper chance. Armagh stuck with McGeeney for 10 years, 9 of which brought no success. Galway stuck with PJ for 5 and I am sure if he wants another 2 there won’t be many objections.

We need to deal with reality. Firstly Armagh did not have leaders all over the field and their game plan did not work to a T.
The game was won because Galway missed most of their frees. The Armagh full forward line had a stinker. The Armagh midfield were outplayed by Maher and Conroy.
If Galway have any kind of reasonable day on frees they win.
For next year we need to be a few % better. That's enough to put us up there competitive to win it. We won't have steady improvement if we're of the mindset that we need to be Dublin six in a row levels.

Is this the morning after optimism - to adapt Tom Murphy? Here’s a question then: how do we win a final? We know how to get to them, but winning them is a different matter. I don’t have the answer, but paying close attention to what Armagh did in terms of approach might be useful. Remember back to the league final period - I’d have placed Armagh 8th in the pecking order.

Galway panicked at the end because they are a defensive team and they were behind, playing against a defensive team.
It’s easy for a defensive team to be happy when they’re level or ahead towards the end.
During the game itself, see how long it took Galway to score a point. It could take minutes.
How would you be feeling thinking it could take minutes to score a point when you are one or two down against a tigerishly, aggressively defensive team like Armagh and your All-Ireland was on the line with a few minutes left? You’d panic. They didn’t have the gameplan or moves made up to score a quick point or two at that stage.
The missed frees do look like the crucial factor for Galway’s loss. Still I’d argue that Armagh were tigerish enough to win the game even if one or two down coming close to the end.
Maybe all those close games over the years made them say ‘never again’.

Thanks, WJ.

…on the topic of backroom teams. Donaghy has done really well with Armagh. He’ll be in charge of Kerry very soon. Not gonna happen I’d be happy to see McStay look at him. Conleith Gilligan was a huge addition to the Armagh set up.

I just think we need someone in the camp who has won it. Been there. Done it. Be that as a player or coach. Someone like a Mark McHugh…freshen things up a bit. It just feels like we need it to re energise and reinvigorate the team.

As @1985 said, we have to get our defensive structure right. It might not be very glamorous but it’s essential and it must be the starting point…then take it from there.

I will leave a more detailed analysis of Mayo for another day, but there is one thing sticking out a mile and seems to be blatantly obvious to everyone, except our management team. I don't like these smothering ultra defensive systems and, hopefully, new rule changes will put an end to them, but, in the meantime, we urgently need to fix our defence and we will not win Sam until we do. We have improved in limiting goal chances, but we are still too loose, too nice and not intense or aggressive enough and are conceding points too easily. In a nutshell, we are too easy to score against. We need one big change in management-Donie Buckley is a tackling specialist. What we need is a specialist coach in defensive structure and systems and we must get a top drawer one in for next season or we are going nowhere fast. We need to fix our defence, make us hard to play and score against, as a priority-we can tackle our other deficiencies afterwards and worry about being entertaining further down the road.

JP - I'd argue that even if Galway did score one or two of those frees, Armagh might have still found a way. They seem to enjoy the process of turning games around and playing on the back foot. They did it against Kerry.

@GlassgusDearg…. 100%

Should have done it years ago. Had we done so, we’d have very likely won Sam by now. Just cannot understand why it wasn’t done. It’s not like some magic formula recently concocted. While loads have been overly focused on our attacking style and ‘inability to break down blanket defences’ (which feckn most counties struggle with!) some of us here have been banging the ‘sort the defence out first’ drum for years. Literally. For me, it’s a no brainer. Yeah we’ve cut down goals, but we’ve afforded opponents loads of space to kick beautiful points with little or no pressure applied on the kicker. Also, teams aren’t scoring as much goals generally. The game has changed and as usual Mayo are behind the times.

…on and off the field!!!

@Mayonaze, like you, I can't fathom how we can't add someone to the backroom team who has been there & won it. We haven't won an All Ireland in 73 years, so there are very few people from Mayo who have even seen us win one, never mind been involved in an All Ireland winning team/setup. How can we overlook this when it is abundantly clear that you don't win All Irelands without that experience. You're gong back to the likes of Mickey Harte/Joe Kernan/John O'Mahony that last won an All Ireland, that didn't win it as a player. There are countless people out there who are now coaches, who have the experience of winning Sam. We need to fix many things, but addressing that would be a huge thing when it comes to the crunch of winning Sam. Armagh literally fell over the line, but they did it. And the experience that McGeeney & Donaghy had as players surely helped them. What harm could it do?

Couldn't agree more JP

This game really shows how much the result drives the narrative. For me, Galway were the slightly better team but didn't take their chances. The Galway full forward line getting so much heat but Armagh's full forward line was equally bad.

Armagh scored two points in the last 30 minutes of the match. They fell over the line/Galway let them off the hook.

Shane Walsh didn't get that much heat from Armagh, I was at the match. Nothing dirty about either team on Sunday.

Think this will set Galway back a year or two it's just as bad as us in 21 I saw them at their home coming they looked like they would rather be anywhere else I do think they should stop home comings for loosing teams it's probably the last thing they would want to do.

Sorry Liberal, I meant after the match. The Galway full forward line has been lambasted.

I know Armagh won't care a jot and good luck to them for winning, but it was a very unmemorable final for the neutral of course.. I'm banging on about rule changes here but it's only because I have a deep love of the game and it's entertainment values. On Sunday there was no one on one contests as in a good kick pass into a full forward and let him take on his man.. Why? No space, everyone behind the ball. No high fielding because bar one or 2 kickouts.. When nothing is on... Its all short stuff. Thats not football.. Very little foot involved these days. If k. Mcdonald was playing today he'd get absolutely sickened.

James Horan’s piece in the Examiner today on Ulster’s coaching being miles ahead of everyone else…it’s interesting but more, concerning than anything else.

What are Mayo doing about it?? Ah sure look, the OPW are difficult to deal with …ah sure, our academy is great…and we’ve brilliant structures(it’s not and we don’t). Our schools are great (but we’ve no Hogan Cup in decades). Who are we kidding?

Is Mayo genuinely hungry for success? I’d have serious doubts over the people at the helm. We’re just going around in circles. I think we really need a leader at the very top. That person isn’t there at the moment.

@ Norm - The GAA itself has created this situation by letting the game slide into a defensive, low risk, ponderous style of play. The last great finals were the Mayo/Dublin finals when it was all out attack by both teams, we came out the wrong side of it but it was great to watch. Some would argue all of this started by in 2012 but there has been a definite slip since the end of the last decade. I don't think this new qualifier structure helps either. If you look at some of the older footage of games in the 50's, 60's etc it wasn't a great watch either by todays standards but it was a pastime sport then so hard to compare. I think Gaelic football reached it zenith in the middle of the last decade.

With the mayo gaa board meeting on the season gone by in mid August,
Any delegates reading this, can we ask mc stay to start training the lads now on how to kick scores from a distance ,
Its not science , we will never win unless we develop this ,
Galway failed , mayo failed miserably against packed defence, silly over and back stuff ,
Also tell mc stay to manage and keep mulligan and Co of the side line, either manage or get of the pot

I listened this morning to OTB Tommy Rooney on the latest with the new rules. I recommend people listen to it.
To give people the elevator pitch.
1. Jarlath Burns setup the FRC, it has high quality football people on it, the objective was to improve the game to play, watch and referee.
2. There are weekly sandbox games which have detailed feedback sessions and data analysis. The FRC tweak rules based on this. For example they realized you need some limits on the player doing tap and go from set plays. A player did some solos like taking a free, turn did tap and go.
3. The biggest changes are :
- 4 pts for a goal 2pts outstde a 40m arc.
- can tap and go like rugby all frees and sidelines
- 50m punishment for backchat or delaying frees
- 3 players from each side must stay up
4. There is huge momentum for plenty of this to be brought in especially the scoring system and the tap and go.
Now, take this as 100% certain, the All Ireland winners next year will be the competitive top 8 team that best researches, plans, prepares and executes their season based on the new rules.
I'll give an example. You are way up in a semi final. You make three strange substitutions? Reason? This team is protecting its two best goal scorers and best 2pt kicker.
Jese where did they come up with that logic?
One of the mgmt with a basketball background at the start of the year mentioned about the Golden State warriors being sparing with Steph Curry the best 3ot shooters gametime.
Let's go an unprepared route.
You are way up in a semi final, there's 10 mins left, your two goalscorers run into each other and get injured.
Sorry but you're not being fully honest with yourself if you're putting that down to bad luck.
James Horan is fully involved with the FRC and our mgmt will need sessions with James.
Goalscoring will now need to be reassessed in terms of how it affects panel selection.
Players like Brian Reape the best goalscorer in club football (it's not debatable for those who follow club football) but only an okay point scorer. It's worth reassessing can he be an impact sub.
What players can score from distance? Our wingbacks, do we now put Diarmuid centre back or Fergal Boland wing back?
What little advantages can we research?
100% the All Ireland winner next year is the competitive team that best nails preparing for the new rules.

@ Martin - I definitely agree with the distance kicking/scoring point. Kick points from distance but keep AOS in close to goal as an extra option and to keep the opposition guessing. Use TC as an extra half forward to the keep the running option there as well.

Unstoppable, no problem, my mistake.

Anyone else thinking there'll be some form of objection to the new rules from Ulster?..

@Mark Dempsey very good point there! I'd say there definetly will be objection from ulster teams!

@JP I'd like the sound of some of these but with all new rules, would be worried about some of the unwanted consequences.

Four points for a goal makes a penalty very valuable. would hate to see an increase in diving or gamesmanship.

Great post, JP! Thanks for that clear breakdown.

I totally agree that the rules are there to be devoured and our gameplan to reflect them next year. Learn, take advantage, adapt fast - it would make the difference!

I also agree that we need to be scoring from distance. It’s a great tool against the blanket.

I liked the Stefan Campbell/full back move for the goal on Sunday. It reminded me of Leeroy’s breaks from the back to score two goals in All-Ireland finals. Our team planned those goals. I’m sure Armagh did too. I’d be coming up with different tactics to unsettle the blanket. It’s not so effective when a team is behind. Expose its weaknesses.

I just had a thought last night - Seán Cavanagh, who I’ve come to like at times, was sitting in the Sunday Game panel on Sunday with many others. I wonder was he thinking about Tyrone’s use of the blanket in the 2018 final, a game he played in, and in which I believe Tyrone were humiliated and the blanket was woefully ineffective. Not so this Sunday.

Four points for a goal might promote an even more defensive approach and make matters worse rather than better!
Interestingly there doesn't seem to a word about the hand pass. Limit the hand pass to 2 or 3 and then you must kick. This alone would dramatically change the game for the better and put the foot back into football. At present its a hybrid game somewhere between basketball and soccer.

@JP - would be interested in the feedback from the players involved in the sandbox matches what they thought. Am also concerned about the 4 point goals will that just make teams even more defensive? I wondered if they 2 more posts like in Aussie rules that would encourage more point taking. I suppose the logic of the 2 point 40 score is to suck the defenders further out the field and therefore leave space in the defense for more attacking play.

I doubt all of these rules will be implemented.A few might be as a token gesture.in any case there will be coaches already working out a way of neutralising any new rules.A total change of mindset is what’s needed but I think the old game is gone beyond that now

Don't think you can limit the hand pass, to hard to police, no back over half way line like in Basketball would be a good move,

No more than championship structure, I'd doubt we should expect little more than tweaks next year.

Maybe the tap and go comes in with some tightening up of the advantage rule.

The rest are a bit too much to throw straight into intercounty without a proper trial in the sigerson. The exception being the 50m for backchat which I would worry won't be enforced evenly. I'd maybe prefer if the referee simply had the choice of moving it either 20 or 50 metres.

On structures, I'd prefer if the calendar issue was addressed and we could take back August over wholesale changes. Give the preliminary winners an extra week and see how it goes under better conditions. If they do that and show some progress on the ticketing, I would be happy enough.

A stat I got which explains one of the problems with the modern game.
Full Forward Lines
Turbitt, Murnin, Grugan
No shots at goal from open play
Comer, Finnerty, Walsh
3 shots at goal from open play.

6 inside forwards, 3 shots and 1 point

I'd love to see a game with quality players with no handpass.
I think the 40m is too far, 35m would allow far more underage players kick 2pters.
A point from 35m out is difficult.

The New rules are nonsense IMO.
Penalise teams hand passing in their own half with a free.
This will always give the attacking team the advantage.
Let's see how a Blanket Defence works when you can not hand pass in your own half.
This would change the Game in a positive way.

Mike H - the problem isn't players handpassing in their own half. It's them handpassing across the opposition's 45, because the other team has retreated all the way back.

The game is a dire spectacle for the most part.

There isn't one silver bullet - some of the new rules at least try to address the problems of blanket defences. Personally wish they could outlaw the possession nonsense, but without implementing a shot clock or a rugby league style 5 ruck limit, there is no direct fix for it.

One point from play from inside forwards says it all and that point was from Shane Walshe who plays out in the half forward line and his point was from distance. Mayo people frequently say why does AOS stay inside when no decent ball is coming in? Same with Comer, he seems to be told stay inside and did not get a decent ball in the whole game.
We are maybe close but our defense is nowhere near the level of what we saw in the final. Armaghs defense was outstanding so was Galways, both very intense and disciplined. Armagh got only one scoreable free which they missed.

What I thought I was seeing was a Galway team on top in the 1st half. Dominating the play. Not being put under pressure. But getting needlessly caught on the break allowing Armagh to score and stay in the game. So Galway no where near top gear but still comfortable. And no rear pressure from Armagh.

And then the expert pundits on BBC(Michael Murphy, McConville, Micky Harte) saying the opposite; Advising that Armagh are in control here. Saying Armagh are happy that Galway have the ball as they are doing nothing with it; they are being patient and frustrating Galway to make mistakes etc etc
So in their view, someone like me is clueless. Don't understand the modern game. Naive.
Roll on the 2nd half and we hear about the Armagh 'spine' formation; with their goalie giving a hand signal and all the Armagh players down the fields then converging in a line down the centre of the pitch. McGeeney a Genius. Galway get caught out with a sucker punch goal.

Reality in my view is that the game has got itself into a sorry state. Thank god I wasn't in Croke Park to watch this garbage. The TV, I suspect, disguises how bad the spectacle is.

I was hoping for a Galway victory on the day. And anyone other than an Ulster team to win the All-Ireland. I hope you can understand why - their brand of football is not really football. I don't know what to call it.

Just reading Niall Grimleys story in the Irish news there, the tragedy and injury he has suffered is incredible.

A fine man,what an inspirational figure.

Some lovely redemption stories coming out if that Armagh victory.

Brolly as usual refusing to row back on his personal weasel words on McGeeney, didn't even acknowledge Geezer in writing about the victory despite describing him last year as "hanging over his team like a ton weight. 10 years without a trophy, maybe management is not his forte"

McGeeney can afford to feel incredibly satisfied after all the sh1te he has had to listen to

This week there's so much guff in punditry. It is being contested that Galway didn't kick this away as Armagh would have responded, utter guff. Galway had just a bizarre off day on frees, that much we know. The evidence of Armagh's attacking play was they were more likely to not have been able to respond.

Brolly is an awful weirdo , a great character in life that has helped so many but his personal attacks on GAA personalities through his platform is shameful. It’s like he has two personalities.

Brolly is just desperately trying to remain relevant with his sick personal attacks.His arse licking of the Dublin team during their golden years was nothing short of pathetic totally ignoring their huge advantages while spouting on about humble they were.He was a reasonable player but a total coward and wouldn’t have lasted 5 minutes in the modern game

Might not be the first to say it, only spotting that Ryan was the top scorer this championship. That's mental considering we didn't even make it to the quarter final.

We have an awful habit in the GAA in general and definitely in Mayo to go overboard in over inflating or dismissing teams after one good or below par performance. After David Gough engineered Galway's Connacht final win the Tribesmen were everything that we weren't. Dublin fluked a draw against Mayo but apparently in doing so they showed their greatness. Similarly at times this year Derry, Kerry and Donegal have all been overhyped as probable or potential winners. No mention of Armagh until they won and then it was seemingly obvious all along that they would do so. Praise showered on Galway in particular their marquee forwards (whatever they are) in the run up to the final only for the same folk to tell us after that they never do it when the chips are down.
Rudyard Kipling wrote a brilliant poem "IF" and had it been written about us GAA supporters it would have been very fitting.

I think people, pundits etc are trying to take the gloss of Armagh winning the All Ireland on Sunday, more like saying that they won because of the current defensive system, this is unfair.

Other Counties have perfected the art of mass defending and they are not called out on this, the Dubs really perfected the model we all saw that Jim McGuinness manufactured in 2011 v the Dubs, Kerry to a slighter lesser extent, Galway, Derry etc.

I attended the final last year between the Dubs and Kerry, it was an absolute bore fest with only the final 10 minutes having any excitement, two teams playing defensive football.

Mayo have not reached a mass defensive level to win an All Ireland, now that new Rules will come into being for the 2025 championship, does this mean that it will be more of an advantage for Mayo ?
Will the new Rules suit much taller guys that are very strong high fielders ?

I can't suffer joe brolly.. An absolute gobshite.. Remember him having a pop at Gooch.. He jumped on so many bandwagons he's now the driver.. Tyrone, Donegal Dublin.. Donegal could do no wrong one time, same as Tyrone.. Then there was nothing worse than harte and mcguinness in last year. He is just insufferable.. His opinion was the only one that mattered on the Sunday Game.. Shouting down and patronising fellas with 10 all Irelands between them.. Fuckin twot

Another gold for Armagh

@JoeG,very unfair comment on David Gough re Connacht final, . Sure Galway got one or two soft frees in the closing minutes, but Mayo got a few as well throughout the game, it evens itself out. Clutching at straws, it was very tight but the best team won on that occasion, time to move on .

@Km79 - great week for Armagh, from GF to swimming

Went to the minor game between Claremorris and Crossmolina tonight.
A few things that stood out…
Kobe McDonald is special,we need to make sure he’s elevated into the senior squad at the right time with the right s and c/nutrition play as the natural talent is simply insane.1-7 tonight on mark noonan who stood out for me as a solid defender for the minors also.
Another boy that really does do a lot of unnoticed brilliant work and often gets on the end of things is Oisin Deane.
3 goals and 2 points tonight all from play.
It has to be taken into consideration that these boys are minors again next year….
On the Claremorris side of things,Dara beirne outstanding and another one we need to make sure is helped along his way into the senior setup as he’s another real talent.
Rio Mortimer struggled at the start with Deane but grew into it more in the second half.
Hurley has real pace to burn but made the wrong decision on a few occasions tonight.
A great game that could have gone either way.

@Km79 great for them! Here's some swimmer.

Watched it back (after the gold medal, Daniel!).

Anyone else think Comer’s kick in the first half was a point?

I thought so from my perch in the Davin, and on TV it looked a definite point. I think Hawkeye is iffy.mBrilliant for tennis, but not convincing for hurling or football.

I reckon Hawkeye was broken for the hurling and football finals. I'm almost sure there wasn't one Tá in either of the finals. Was really surprised with one of the wides in the hurling first half that went to hawkeye.
The one winged Seagull is to blame for Hawkeye malfunction!

Mayogodeo I share your enthusiasm for the underage talent and over the years I’ve namechecked lads but in Mayo we definitely have a tendency to hype up fellas. We lost a minor AIF in ‘22. It didn’t go well on the day but I’ve no doubt that a significant factor was the boys were so insanely hyped up in the lead up (compared to Galway, where there was no mention of them in local press or publicly). It was a bit nuts tbh.

I’m not sure (and I’d be interested in WJ’s opinion here) that we should be naming anyone 19 or under on this blog. I don’t think it helps in any way whatsoever. I’m 47. I’ve seen tonnes of highly talented 16/17/18 year olds with so much promise, fail to ‘make it’.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m as interesting as anyone in how our underage teams are doing. Who is standing out etc. but I’m worried that too much talking up lads, even mere reference of their potential, is unhelpful. I totally get that we want to see reports in underage games. That’s fine. But can that be done WJ where there’s no ability to comment?

U20 is different. I see u20 as being young men. U17 and the old u18 is very different and while there there only a few years apart, there’s a huge gulf emotionally, mentally, physically etc.

In the u20 review recently the mgmt highlighted insufficient SnC and nutrition.
How is that possible in 2024?
I assume it's known what fitness needs to be done and what nutrition program? So them why wasn't it done? No one these days is more than 20 mins drive from a fully equipped gym and a shop with sports nutrition.

@Mayonaze great shout on Mark McHugh. That's the guy we need to bring in. Someone modern, progressive and well regarded.

He was very well rated by the rossies last year and is down In moycullen this year so obviously travel (£) not an issue.

Seemingly conleith gilligan a huge addition to armagh this year, great football brain and tactical. Geezer tbf freshened things up every year and cast the net far and wide for coaching assistance every year.

No harm to Buckley, Rochford etc but the players have been hearing those same voices a long time and still no sign of Sam.

JP - a good question. Surely a management team that were given the job of managing the Mayo u20 last year should have understood when they got the job how important S and C is. Did it just dawn on them at the end of the year when they saw they were a long way behind nearly every other county in S and C.

I would question player man mgmt and support. So you have a young player, aren't you supposed to be supporting them with what they need to do to get better. When they trimmed their panel some of those players were doing correct SnC and nutrition.
How is that for player buy in if you didn't even use SnC and nutrition in panel selection.

Videos from the Cusack appeared show comers shot going over the post so nil would be correct decision.

Supermac "Someone modern, progressive" isn't exactly what the county board wanted when appointing senior management. They went with older experienced heads, even though they weren't experienced in winning Sam. Despite newer inexperienced fresher management teams with winning experience having done so well in recent years e.g. Dooher, Farrell

Our mgmt ticket last has a member playing senior county football in 1990.
Recently Aidan O'Shea was on Off the Ball and it the first time I'd heard Aidan answering tactical and player analysis questions in depth.
The big takeaway I had grim it was how considered and concise Aidan was. He spoke on Sean Kelly and his role with deep insight.
Now, we surely have a prety major credibility gap between mgmt and players when our mgmt only has one member that played senior and that was 34 years ago.
This urgently needs addressing.

Sweeney's article on Mondays independent was scurrilous
Bad enough to be beaten.in 2017 he said that the Mayo team were Lions led by Donkeys.
A Sligo man.

Gizmo I have been in croker many times when Hawkeye shows the ball going through the post which obviously is over the post and people question it .some obviously don’t realise that over the post is wide

@Jr

For the life of me I don't know how that Eamon sweeney Joker is held in such esteem, he hates gaelic football, and is constantly deriding teams as bottlers and failures (galway this time, us on previous occasions, dismissive of all ulster teams).

That is a fella who constantly writes articles insisting that Ireland is 'Rugby country' and 'Rugby is the nations favorite sport' every time the mens rugby team beat one of the big guns in a meaningless friendly

It annoys me when lads like him get to set the narrative

James o donoghue had a brilliant observation on the otb pod that Armagh were so much more dynamic in attack then galway, when they did win the ball it only took them 30 seconds to get up the pitch and get a shot off, whereas it was taking galway 90 seconds to get a shot off, there movement was far too static.

It's lazy analysis for anyone to dismiss Armagh as purely defensive, when they attacked it was with purpose and decisiveness, the goal was clearly a setplay off the training ground dictated by Forker. The execution and quality of the scores from Grimley, the o'neill brothers and crealey were of the highest order. I was right behind Oisin o neill for his point, absolute skill amd conviction

How many Armagh scores came from quick break? They broke hard and at pace with numbers, they didn’t get trapped holding the ball at the back too long which gives the defensive team a chance to cynically foul and slow the attack. They varied the attack, with quick accurate passes and players not afraid to shoot when the chance presented.

Saying it for a while but instead of handpassing rules which I think will actually punish a team trying to attack, a cynical foul by a team just turned over, i.e., pulling a player back, two or three players in and holding a player on the ground, stopping tackled player getting ball out to a teammate etc should all be punished by bringing ball forward for a kickable free.

Start there and then it is on teams to work out attacking play, defensive teams winning an All Ireland every now and again shouldn’t cause huge concern for rule changes.

Armaghs first point for example, Galway neither pushed up nor dropped off, allowed Armagh to build from the back and attack against a defense that wasn’t set in place.

I reckon we could make a back room team from the Blog :)

JP - S&C
Sean Burke - Fan Liaison Officer
Tsudonhim - Stats

Did anyone notice the umpires on the point attempt around the 50th minute after Shane Walsh had gone short with a free .The umpire on the near side was standing no where near the post and was in no position to make any call and then neither of them made any form of signal.they both seem to have completely switched off .Shane Walsh’s free seemed fairly central so I don’t know what the umpire was doing out there

Eamonn Sweeney article from last year;

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/armagh-and-mayo-have-great-spirit-but-wont-win-all-irelands/42328902.html

@JP I've been banging the drum about the lack of any Inter County All Ireland Winning experience on the ticket. But the lack of inter county playing experience is something I hadn't thought about & is a great point too. These questions are surely on the table for the review in August. Anything that helps the team is a bonus.

Inter county playing experience didn't do us much good in the U20's where we got schooled by Henry and his Sligo boys. On our sideline that day we had Gardiner, Higgins and Cafferkey with Horan behind them in the stand. Hundreds of games for Mayo at the highest level, multiple Connaught medals between them, All Ireland final apperances and All Stars too. Yet they appeared leaderless and clueless that day In MacHale Park, while Henry on the Sligo line had everything running to a tee, subs in on time, energetic and loud on the line, tactics fully understood by his players.
As for the All Ireland winning experience? That's a pretty small pool to pick from.

That u20 mgmt ticket had very little mgmt experience and James Horan involvement was rather limited.
I think we need a modern coach like Mark McHugh, Paddy Tally, Gerry McGowan.
See if Kieran Donaghy would come onboard. Would Eamon Fitzmaurice who has family in Castlebar.
We're quite weak on rating players.
Andy is always giving overly inflated player ratings to what are solid functional players. I think Andy will be coming in.
We really need three coaches added :
- modern defense
- modern attack
- Excellent player rater. I'd imagine a Kieran Donaghy or Eamon Fitzmaurice have a proven eye for where various players are at in terms of performance level.

I'm baffled in Galway and Mayo the amount of people that never mention Kevin Johnson. He's streets ahead of some of the names being mentioned above, just ask anyone that has been coached/managed by him.

@Mayo focus
Id like to thrown my hat into the ring for the backroom team:

Mind the House - defensive coach.

No one would get near our goal. I'd have the full back line tethered to the goalposts for starters.

If there is going to be a shake up in the Mayo backroom team you would like to imagine it’s done before the club championship starts in 2 weeks time.

Mayo Focus and Mind the House - LOL.

They’d be brilliant choices. No messing around there.

MayoMayo1 - very interesting post.

Tony

There are rumours going around that one or two may be on their way to Kildare but out of respect for the blog I won’t mention who those two are.

Kevin Johnson is a good manager for sure but the only question I have is that he has managed teams that were proven winners in Tubber and Tourlestrane. And in fairness Corofin are in a bit of transition but he still did well there. Would not be opposed to seeing him in Mayo but he has been managing the stronger teams in counties.

Some said Fitzmorris has family in Castlebar but it’s still some travel. McConville also has family in mayo but not sure he would be keen again considering he was rejected before.

Hopefully, the upcoming review with the minor management team will put a stop to the utter nonsense of not allowing squad members to play with their local clubs and schools. It's disgraceful that lads at 15,16 and 17 years of age got zero game time for 6 or 7 months because they were on the panel. It's utter lunacy and those involved in that decision should be called to task on it. The collapse against Armagh should come as no shock as many of the players involved had little or no match practice. Players love to play and the under 20's and senior players should also be playing with their clubs in league games etc.

100% west is best.

Big Mike, Johnson is clearly very good but would not be considered by county board as he hasn't been beaten out the gate in Croke park as an intercounty manager :)

@Mind the House, welcome aboard :)

Giz

Come on now no need for that. Big improvement last year as a hammering in Croker didn’t happen. Look on the bright side.

Well said the west is best.
Too much of this putting young players up on a pedestal and giving the impression that they are too
good to play for school or club. These players want to play, and will keep them grounded. Ask Brian Cody the importance of playing with the club.

@mayofocus.i like to nominate myself and @clare for the backroom setup. Clare could be chief fundraiser with all the friends she has. I'd be interested in joining if i knew where the interviews are held.i could hide in a van as good as anyone in crokepark.

@No doubt haha all the friends I have? Strange comment...!

I don't know who or what changes are coming into the background team their might not be any sure I definetly think one or two changes need to be made.

@Green and red yeah suppose we didn't get a hammering like last year but was just poor exit going out before quarters.

@No Doubt now we're talking! Interviews will be held at Julian's of Midfield! Date tbc

@Mayo focus and @No doubt sure I'll throw my name ha.

Seriously though would be great to have Andy moran in yet but he's probably not ready to come into the mayo set up maybe just yet.

@Clare

I hope you picked up on the sarcasm in my comment. Didn’t mean it literally

Paddy Tally is an interesting one. Hasn't been much talk about him since they won the all Ireland 3 years ago. If O'Connor comes under pressure he might be sacrificed.

He has a big reputation, but it's pretty defensive focused. Would people be happy with him?

Personally I'm more inclined to think there'll be additions to the management team rather than departures. Wishful thinking but I would love Peter Canavan.

@Geeen & Red yeah I know! Mad there's no more county games till January you'd really miss them being in September I know though can't with the club championship but still it seems long time till January!

Paddy Tally didn’t seem to help Kerry when they played Derry this year.
Kerry looked like an unrecognisable version of themselves as they adapted to Derry’s game. It took away the Kerry we know. It is also taking away the Mayo we know.
Is there any way to just overturn the defensive system a team wants to play, play our own game and put them on the back foot?
Transforming Kerry or Mayo into a mass defending team doesn’t seem attractive. That system works better for teams that have a history of playing like this.

@clare. I think you are right. Andy Moran will be a future mayo manager but he is not ready yet. I would like to see an all ireland winner joining the backroom team.

Will the county minor final be played weekend or weekday ? I’d love to fit it in somehow , reading what’ others have wrote about the games . Semis are down for midweek I see so they probably continue with that I’m guessing

One other point I’d make on the cynical play is that the dishing out of the yellow/black card or ticking of the name shouldn’t happen until the free which has been moved up to a kickable scoring position has been taken.

As an example from the final, following Rian O’Neills booting of the ball in, McHugh ended up with the ball, Grugan then pulled him back, made sure not to pull him down, just pulled him back, but it stopped the momentum of the Galway attack. This subsequently lead to Galway handpassing over and back (as Armagh were back following the foul, which to me is coached) until they eventually ran into traffic. This was met with groans of ah it’s poor football from Galway, rather than complaints about Armagh cynical fouling and questions for McGeeney as to why his team foul like that (of course we all know inter county managers will trot out that it isn’t coached it’s just forwards trying to tackle. Bullshit).

In my rule change, that results in a free say from around the D and almost a certain score. Once the ball is kicked over, the ref then ticks Grugan in his book for first cynical foul, thereby delaying the taking of the goal kick. This will result in a faster game as the punishment is there for the cynical team. Second cynical foul by that player is a yellow, third foul and they are gone and team is down to 14.

I go on about this a lot and repeat my ranting a bit so apologies but it just seems so glaringly obvious.

@MayoFocus

I would also like in on the ticket please if there is a role going. I am based overseas and don’t really offer much but be a grand way to get final tickets as with the star studded team we’d be in all irelands every year.

MayoMayo1. Good point about the cards and ticks and making sure that the offending team is punished rather than the attackers. Along the same lines a bugbear of mine is the players that are allowed to be ticked and yellow carded in pretty much every game but are clever enough to avoid a red most times. Surely a totting up process whereby a certain amount of cards in a competition lead to a suspension.

Galway were steeped with luck all year.
Overconfident in the final.
They will find it hard to recover.
Why are the GPA not giving out about Sweeney's article on Mondays independent?
Instead they just want to stick with the microwaved season.
We couldn't buy luck, not that far away,one or two new backs a priority.
Get defence right and work from there.
People give out about our midfield but it never was our main problem this year.

As regards the rule changes.....has anyone done any analysis on how many hand passes there are in the modern game versus how many kicks! People say you can't limit the hand pass. Of course you can. Isn't the hop limited to one! And I would argue the hop has not done near as much damage to the game as the hand pass. If we are fed up with watching players running back and forth around the 45 passing the ball over and back to each other then limit the number of passes to 2 or 3. And suddenly we have a different game a game far more deserving of the title 'football'.

@diehard.it would be interesting to see what a game with limited handpasses would be like but I'd imagine it would be impossible to police and would lead to more frees in the game. If it was limited to say 4 handpasses how would the player receiving after the 4th handpass know whether to kick or not unless the ref blows the whistle in which case it could be confused with a free and the ref has probably enough to do anyway

@no doubt, or on handpass 3/4 when out of options its a 50yd kick back to goalie to start again

Jr - midfield is a major problem for us. We don't have a big midfield, no proper ball winners there. It completely limits our kickout options and thus the platform for attack. It's a huge part of why we are playing laborious football and why our build up play is so slow and easy to defend against. Any team with a proper midfield has a chance against us.

Great point, Dreamy.

Yep, agree we aren’t at the races when it comes to ball winning dominant midfielders. Diarmuid is a fantastic footballer but not your typical aerial combatant. Flynn shows glimpses but he’s more of a half forward and Carney, just hasn’t shown much at all. Really big 6-8 months for him in my opinion. Need to see him standout now that he’s in senior club championship and in the NFL next Spring we need to see some big displays because he strikes me as someone with great potential, but there’s been little to nothing on end product….yet. Bob…also needs a big club season and to bulk out. If he was with an Ulster county he’d have looked very different in 2024 (S&C…again!). The senior club championship 2024 feels like it’s a really great opportunity to showcase your talent and ability, more so than in previous seasons. I think there’s lots of scope for new players to emerge. Whether anyone will is a different matter but I’d be fairly certain that Senior Management will be looking at the club scene closer than ever before. There are positions up for grabs all over the pitch on the Mayo team…corner back slots, midfield…and of course up front.

@Dreamy

I always felt that our best midfield combination was Mattie and Jordan. Jordan gave us the physicality and Mattie seemed to play his best football with Jordan alongside him.
Jordan did well in the first year at half forward but i thought he wasn't quite at the same level last year.
I would move Jordan back into midfield where he will give us that physicality and bring Tommy out to the half forward line.

Regarding the state of football in general and those dreaded periods of handpasses. Its Jim Gavins Dubs we have to thank for it. They were masters of keeping the ball, recycling it again and again and again and only when a high percentage shot was on would they go for it. "The process" they called it and it worked brilliantly for them. Fair play to them. Kilkenny in particular was the main man in dictating the pace and slowing games down to suit.

Isn't it ironic that Jim Gavin is now on the panel trying to repair things,

@ Mind the House, You’re exactly right on all of that. I had missed Mattie in my summary, but he’s very like Diarmuid, being a ‘box to box’ type midfielder. If we play Mattie & Jordan, then where do you play Diarmuid? He needs to be on the spine. Not the wing, which is where he has been placed in the past (nuts!). He could be a brilliant 6 or 11. I’d definitely have Tommy on the wing

@mayonaze

I always felt Diarmuid should have been at 11. He started at 11 in the league a few years back and played really well in the first 2 games. One of those was against the Dubs in Croke Park. Bizarrely he was moved back out to the wing where his impact was more limited. He would make a very good number 6 also. Maybe he slots back in there at some point.

Mcbrien at 3, Sam at 6, Jordan and Mattie in midfield and Diarmuid at 11 is as strong a spine as we have in my opinion.

I’d agree that’s the best 3,6,8/9,11 when everyone is fit and in form. Any manager who put Diarmuid on the wing is clueless.

Diarmuid has a tendency to go into cul de sacs.
Doesn't trouble the score board too often either.
Yes CHF as a distributor seems sensible.
A great engine.

@mind the house i agree. Also think we should have McLaughlin at 10 so that we have an extra back.
1. Colm Reape
2. Aaron McDonnell
3. David McBrien
4. Michael Plunkett
5. Enda Hession
6. Sam Callinan
7. Donnacha McHugh
8. Matthew Ruane
9. Jordan Flynn
10. Eoghan McLaughlin
11. Diarmuid O’Connor
12. Tommy Conroy
13. Paul Towey
14. Cillian O’Connor
15. Ryan O’Donoghue
The team i’d pick

Cillian O'Connor not fit for it any more,too much mileage and injuries.
One of our greatest but time and injuries catch up on all players.

Last word from me about the plague of continuous handpassing.
It worries me that the group charged with improving the game don't seem to be even considering it as a problem at all. Maybe they are but I'm not aware of it.
Surely they should try it for a few test games and see what happens. I've done this numerous times in training (two passes then a kick) to improve kick passing and to promote heads up football. It's easy to referee....the lads themselves cop on real quick and so do the opposition.
My final twopence worth!

Testing as I cannot get published here

testing as I cannot get published

testing

I cannot get published here

Assuming it's Galway & Dublin up first in the league again:

1. Reape
2. Coyne
3. Brickenden
4. Hession
5. Callinan
6. McBrien
7. MacLaughlin
8. McHugh
9. Carney
10. Diarmuid
11. McHale
12. Touhy
13. Towey
14. Carr
15. Cillian

Reape is an easy choice. There's still loads of room for improvement, but he's progressing well.

Hession needs more minutes and is our best option carrying the ball out of the fullback quickly. Brickenden and Coyne are the guys in possession of the jerseys. Best to find out where they are at early. More than likely one of them will be starting in championship.

McBrien is 3 come championship, but I'd give him minutes in the half back line because I think he'll get on the ball more and hopefully become more confident and comfortable on the ball. Sam I don't feel is ready to be a top 6 yet. He's shown flashes offensively I'd hope time at wingback helps him improve there. Eoghan MacLaughlin needs a run of games.

McHugh and Carney both need minutes. We don't need Ruane or Flynn in January, and Mattie showed this year that he doesn't need to play every game to be ready when it matters.

Similar story in the forwards. Diarmuid needs a few games after injury. McHale showed well and will hopefully get better with minutes. Bob will only grow as well.

Carr and Cillian need minutes after injury. Towey needs a league. We don't need Ryan, Tommy or Aiden starting in January. I liked what Donegal did with mcbrearty and gallen coming out on the loop. I wonder if Cillian and Paul could give us something similar with Carr maybe allowing us to also have a threat down the middle.

I'd love to see probably a new face in each line. Corner back and half forward is the obvious ones, for me but I think we could do with a young attacking half back. No harm going reasonably strong for the league. A trophy would do our self belief the world of good.

I'm reading so much about Galway's injuries from so called journalists-even the management kept banging this drum.Christ!, if we were to go on in the same vein,we'd be deemed as the biggest whingers ever!
We've had far more than our share of injuries at crucial times,but not once have I heard any of our management use it as an excuse.

@opt2misteek…like Harry and Cillian in’21. Absolutely massive losses.

2 weeks out from the first round of club championship and still no confirmation of times for senior and intermediate, on the Mayo Gaa website.

You can stop your testing now, Observer1, seeing as all your repeated posts about comments not being posted are all up. Now, have you anything to say for yourself?

Frost, I absolutely love that you are posting a team line-up for the first two rounds of the League.
Get out of the traps early.

No way would I say Cillian is finished. Andy played his best football when older than Cillian. Likewise this was Aidos best year in a while. We need some experienced players on the team. One of Galway’s best players on Sunday was Conroy. He seems to have been around for a long time. An unbelievable servant no doubt. Really looking forward to the Bank holiday football feast that is the quarter finals. Oh hold on… the All Ireland is over already. Still can’t get my head around the rush to get it over and done with

Are we going to have the ridiculous situation again this year where the senior, intermediate and junior championship games are all on the same weekend - with nothing on the following weekend.
Common sense would put senior championship games one weekend followed by intermediate and junior championship the following weekend.

New pod up on Patreon - Rob and Mike with Colm Boyle chewing the fat in the aftermath of the All-Ireland final.

Don’t know who suggested Cillian is finshed but it’s nonsense . I actually think players are packing up too early , Michael Murphy and leeroy two good examples of men who had still plenty to offer .

Cillian is no where near done he's been unlucky with injuries and was actually starting to come back to form before our early exit. He's also our best penalty taker rarely misses them if we had him in 21 who knows..

Yeah I think Murphy and Keegan both had a couple of years left in them (obviously I say that without knowing eithers personal commitments) , the shorter season now should make it slightly more palatable for players to stay on.
AoS has stated he doesn't plan to go anywhere for a few years yet.

The player of the year in my opinion, Paul Conroy, at 35, still has loads to offer too.

Depends on career really, Having kids a factor too but at least half that armagh team has kids and it didn't slow them down

....in other news interesting rumours of lots of comings and goings on coaching tickets across the land

@Supermac, I wonder have those rumours come from the meeting in The Macwilliam in Claremorris where the senior management met??
Personnally, I hope there is a shake up in the management ticket. It needs it and Mcstay needs to lead this shake up vocally and firmly from the front. There can only be 1 dog in the room and that must be the manager. Like it or not, rumour or not, it didn't always look that way on the sideline this year. In particular in the Derry game, I have it on first hand knowledge from one of the officials on duty that evening, that our sideline was not a good place that evening. Very agitated, very argumentative and very undecided on wat to do. Too many Chiefs and not enough Indians?

@Pebblesmeller

I believe Oisin McConville said the very same thing 2 years ago but was seen as being sour. Roll on 2 years and those exact cracks are there to be seen. It’s some shame but a blind man could see it - except the visionaries on the county board. And if rumours are believed to be true, 2 of our more senior backroom team heading to Kildare than I think it’s just a complete and utter joke. The serious counties wouldn’t go on or tolerate this lack of clarity from management. How many men are turned over in Galway, Kerry, Dublin and even Armagh now. Potentially half of the management team could be gone after 2 years. Terrible to see.

Pebblesmeller, more likely from the players meeting than the management one.

If true Green and red that would be 5 of the original management teamsheet gone in <2 years!

Pebblesmeller, I think any management would have been very agitated on the sideline once we didn’t get the good start and it was clear this was a determined robust Derry side. Our championship was on the line and these games against heavily defensive teams become arm wrestles. How do you break the deadlock? How do you get a run on them? And in MacHale Park too. Space is closed down. What options are there? This is not surprising in any way.
Pádraic Joyce was alluding to this aspect when he said he believed Mayo would be relying on frees for scores against Galway in the League Final in 2023. The defensive structure didn’t win it for Joyce and Galway that day, thankfully.

You must be able to adapt to the game in front of you to beat the blanket. Incredible how mayo teams continue to be completely flummoxed by it.

Armagh spotted a way through it on Sunday. Mulkerrin was dropping in front o fullback line as one of Galways double sweepers, Armagh and his direct opponent Oisin Conaty spotted this nd as he was left free Armagh tried to get it to conaty every time to run at the space, and he went on be motm. These are the kind of things you want a management team to identify

We were way too timid v Derry in the first half , had very little to with Derry being robust imo , we were shocking how we were almost lethargic in effort when all n sundry knew we needed to come out of the blocks fast as Derry were so unsure of themselves in 2024 .

Totally agree, Seán - the start was vital. We had momentum coming from the performance against Dublin. And it’s also essential to get the upper hand on a defensive team - we needed to strike hard, early and effectively.
The mystery is why we didn’t do that.

Talking of league final 23 Swallow, here's Galway's Croke Park final record over the last four years:

2021 - lost Connacht final to Mayo
2022 - lost AIF to Kerry
2023 - lost Allianz league final to Mayo
2024 - lost AIF to Mayo

@Catcol - One can only dream of that 2024 result.

You left out Div 2 League Final in 2022 where they lost to Roscommon

Apologies - Galway lost to Armagh AIF 24!

Happy to add Div 2 league final

Thanks for those, Catcol and Tony.

Thanks Swallow.

Agree completely about our approach against Derry. Add to that the home advantage we had - Castlebar is a massive journey from Derry, and they had to go to Navan the previous week, whereas we were up the road to The Hyde - and Mayo had a head start of at least a couple of points. We were coming off a very respectable group performance undefeated, while Derry had disastrous group results, barely scraping past Westmeath.

Psychologically they had a mountain to climb, but they hung in there against all the odds. Had to give them credit for that.

Odds on to win Sam , lose , they bottled it . All we need to do is set out our own stall , we know whats required , there is no big bad dominant team out there . That for me is what makes it about Mayo next year , we dont need to concern ourselves with anything other than maxing out on our own potential , i believe if we do that we can win it , idc what anyone outside thinks . A middlin Armagh team made the best of it and lifted Sam , a decent Galway team whom we are every bit as good as had one hand on the cup and fooked up , deep down we are all here excited by all this , you can feel it , there was relief amongst most when Galway didnt win it and the feeling is phew thank fook for that now lets go do it before they do .

A shake up is exactly what's required. Music to my ears.

All we needed to do against a very fragile Derry team was start well. They were just asking to be beaten. We proceeded to put in an abysmal display in 1st half. Upped it for 15 mins in 2nd half & went back to the same shite again.

Need a different approach next year

One of the biggest mgmt roles for next season who puts cold hard facts on whatever new rules mean for team and individual performance.
The tap and go will be huge if it comes in.
Imagine likes of Niall Hurley with tap and go and the same player without it.
Agile pacey players that can move or shoot left and right. It might mean you can use a small agile threat at 11 for example.

I just want to say that Mayo are really hampered by playing that cagey stuff.
Playing cagey and playing with the shackles off - we are two different teams.
I tend to agree with Seán Burke that there’s not loads we need to change to win it out (let’s go big and I’m aware of the irony but why not swagger a bit?) next year. I agree with Seán that we should aim to max out our potential.
That and take account of the new rules and find a way to be on the right side of them.

Some lines of a poem came to mind.

“We are the music makers
And we are the dreamers of dreams
…”
I checked and they’re from “Ode” by Arthur O’Shaughnessy, born in London (1844-1881).

Later in the poem there is the line:
“Bring us hither your sun and your summers”.

Seán’s post brought this energy about.

Isn't it not nice to see people writing stuff in Newspapers trying to csst a shadow on Armaghs victory v Galway, very much a sore loser, yes our friend Breheny from Galway.

Both counties are getting stick over the diabolical spectacle the all Ireland final was .it’s 12 years since Jim mcguinness brought the defensive nature of the game to a whole new level and it’s taken all those years for the gaa to react to the total mess the game is now in .we now have overpaid coaches everywhere whose job is to stop the opposition scoring and even if some of the rules are brought in they will already be working on ways around them

I didn't think the final was all that poor. I know it's not the shootout we all would have loved, but tactically I thought it was fascinating. It was tense and exciting and came down to the last play of the game. (And it's still 97 times more entertaining than soccer.)

I know I am biased, and my motivations were not at all pure but I thoroughly enjoyed the game, particularly the relief at the end. But far more so, the aftermath. The celebrations, the colour, the stories (the story about Blaine Hughes on the Mayo Football pod was brilliant), the craic, the songs, the love for McGeeney and the pure joy from the Armagh camp and county this week has been a real gift and reminds me of days gone by in the GAA. How magic it would be to experience it. Pure delight.

I have a certain limited level of sympathy for Galway fans because we know the pain all too well, but they can climb right down from their perches of superiority now because unfortunately for them, they're now no better than us. And while I find myself kinda liking PJ in spite of myself, I have little sympathy for him given his previous antics. I was pleasantly surprised he didn't try to blame the seagull for his poor decision-making. Hope the Nestor cup is of some consolation to him now.

January will he here before we know it, and they will have their chance again, like us. Like others above, I hope it brings some change in Mayo. But I'd take winning a boring final any day of the week and I think ye all would too!

@Anne Marie
A great post. I didn't watch the final live but watched it back since. It wasn't quite the shockingly poor game that I was led to believe it might be. Two teams going toe to toe and the errors and misses added to the drama of it all.

I know a lot of good Galway people but I couldn't find myself willing them to win last Sunday. There was plenty of stick from a few of them after the Tyrone game (which was a 50/50 game all said and done)
They have had 2 big chances in the last 3 years and came away with nothing. You don't sense a crop of new forwards in the background and Comer and Walsh are on borrowed time. They have some fine defensive players to be fair. You could just imagine the flak we'd get if we put up 0-13 in that final. (no forwards, couldn't beat the blanket etc etc)

We'll land the big one some day. For me the gallows humour has taken over to protect my sanity. I always say that these things take time and that they shouldn't be rushed!! Hopefully not too much more time or I'll have expired !!

Bubbling underneath are perhaps the best crop of young players we've had in a good while and that gives me hope going forwards. Beirne, Hurley brothers, Ronan Clarke,Kobe,Rio, Morahan, Mcmonagle, Deane. There are others as well so it looks like the cupboard is reasonably well stocked.

You often hear the phrase "there's a lot of hype in Mayo". For me its always been hope not hype. Without hope we have nothing. Roll on January.

Maig eo Abu

In comparison to some of the other piles of tripe we had to endure all year maybe last Sundays game didn’t seem quite as bad but it’s supposed to be the showpiece event and the only real excitement in my opinion was crammed into the last 7 or 8 minutes when Galway suddenly realised it was slipping away from them .Gaelic football was never meant to be played at the slow walking pace around the 45 that Galway mostly indulged in and the crazy thing is it almost certainly would have worked but for the Armagh goal which Galway weren’t counting on happening.Everything is now preplanned down to set piece plays .There is no spontaneity in the game now and from the evidence of attendances at games this year people are voting with their feet

I agree Anne-Marie,

I was at the game and thought it was good, while not a classic. It was incredibly tense throughout and some of the scores taken were outstanding.

It was only when I went online that evening I seen the uproar and all the usual 'FOOTBALL is DEAD' outrage that people seem so gleeful about pumping out.

The relentless negativity in the media about football is way ott this past few years, to compare the game to hurling is plain stupid, smaller ball in hurling means lads cam and do knock over points from 80 yards every 30 seconds.

There were plenty of awful games at the euros but none of them led to an existential crisis.
I swear Martin Breheny/eamonn sweeney and his ilk have been writing the same negative articles for years now, if they hate football so much maybe they should try another sport

After this first half of the Castlebar/Westport league final Westport have been as good as Castlebar have been poor. Leading 13pts to 3pts with Westport keeper O’Malley kicking 5 from 5 long distance placed balls off his left. Be worth his place for free taking alone!

Paddy O'Malley in goals definitely worth a look with the quality of his overall performance in goals.
Mark Moran looks worth a look again.
Finbarr McLoughlin mgmt need to be in contact with him tomorrow morning. He has tremendous pace and is an accurate finisher.

Jp I would add Colm Moran to that list,feel he may be worth a shot in our inside line.
Castlebar mitchels were relatively poor.
Bob tuohy with a good performance in terms of fielding but struggled to get into the game going forward much like the rest of his team.
Impressed by Finbarr also.
I feel the difference was Westport play a good brand of attacking football,Mitchels don’t.

Did Rossies release O'Malley or is he still with them?

Congratulations to Westport, I remember the seventies when they could barely field a team,a soccer and rugby town.
Good for football in the county, from a Castlebar man.

Towey kicked 1-08 for Charlestown this evening. He was only back from the USA the day before.

I agree with the lads on the pod about Brian Mc Dermott too, well worth having a closer look at in a county set-up, assuming he's interested of course, something which we as supporters never really know.

Jaysis I wouldn't be calling up lads on the back of a league final. They're not much more than a warm up game for championship.

Not just on the back of one match @Tubberman,a trawl of the clubs is needed again. I think we all recognize we are weak in a few areas. We need to identify a few with potential as club champo unfolds and add to our squad. We also need to extract a few.

My rating of Finbarr McLoughlin is based on how I've seen his type of play and movenent at u20 and senior club over many matches.
If tap and go comes in, 50:50 it will or won't then he is an even better player.
He has pace and can move left or right. It's hard to describe but most players move on the field really biased to their kicking foot side.
Finbarr McLoughlin and Mark Moran are comfortable moving left and right.
It's pretty clear they have a higher current level
and ceiling than our most fringe panelists.

rain