that had alot of similarity to senior match, lost battle, in middle third, in second half. Gave away a absolute shocking goal, by a very basic error. Some of our shooting very bad in second half

I have spoken before about the lack of experience iat
county under 20s level in the last three years.The management teams that have been appointed have had no managerial experience at club level with the last two appointments this has proven to be the wrong decision by the county board.Going forward they need to appoint successful club managers that have a good track record if we are going to be successful at county under age level..

This is turning into a very bad year for Mayo football. Out of both underage competitions and hanging on in the senior. Poor performances by our minors,spineless surrender by the seniors and final defeat by our much hyped U20s. I am very much afraid that we are in for a long barren spell in the wasteland. We have stood still at underage level while others like Sligo, Roscommon and even Leitrim, with limited resources, have progressed. Our various county board officials have to take responsibility for the mess we are in, and it is a mess. In football terms, Mayo football is in a crisis and something needs to be done and must be done, without delay. We need a root and branch examination of Mayo football. I would like to see an FRC type body set up, headed by an experienced and driven individual-James Horan would be ideal if he was interested. It would be tasked with an in depth review of Mayo football, an identification of the fault lines and problem areas and the production of a final report outlining recommendations to be implemented. Maybe all the good folks who contribute to this blog and care about Mayo football could continue to highlight our concerns and maybe even get a campaign going to hammer home the message in the hope that it might eventually seep thro' to the powers that be. Doing nothing is simply not an option.

GlasagusDearg - such a report was produced about 15 years ago I’d say.

It was roundly ignored.

Most fans would say systematic change is needed, but it feels the old boys club” maintain the power where it matters.

It’s great and all talking about reports but as stated there was one carried out and it was ignored. Mayo football is in serious trouble.

Couldnt fault the lads for effort and ultimately the gifted goal cost them the game. Many have pointed to this already that Roscommon had a few giants on the team and were able to bring on a few more as well. It would make you wonder what the selection process is to get on a panel (at all levels). If someone looks like a nice footballer and ticks some boxes is that it ? do we look for the big, strong, mobile raw types that can be moulded and worked on. Natural power, strength and pace must be the ingredients needed ? Cant remember the Mick O Dwyer quote exactly but it went something like he'd rather a player with the dog in him already rather than tyring to put it in him. The spine of any team needs serious size, physicality and mobility and we dont seem to have that at each level. Rosscommon won both games because they had this (more so last night). Its when you have a proper spine the Kobe's and Bernies shine better...

@Thedarkyfinn, another Mick O'Dwyer gem was (and it is very apt at where we are at the minute) he knew he needed a big target man with good hands. He scoured Kerry for one and eventually found it in a tiny Junior club. A raw, unfit, monster in Eoin "Bomber" Liston. Micko backed himself to get the football into him and play to his obvious strengths. Liston changed the game and the rest was history. FIVE All Ireland winners medals!
If we had a similar player we'd scoff at his inability to complete the bleep test or be last on the shuttle runs.

@Glasagusdearg: We have been very poor at underage for over a decade, which was papered over by a couple of All-Ireland wins/runs to the final. For many years in that spell, we were being battered by Galway and Roscommon, and in recent years we have been passed out by the likes of Sligo and Leitrim.

For a county of Mayo's size, in which gaelic football is unquestionably top dog, this is a disgraceful state of affairs. And the chickens have come home to roost at senior level.

Some people should be falling on their swords within the Mayo GAA set up, but sadly it's not likely to happen.

We will not be competing at the top table for quite some time, lads. That's where we are at the moment.

10 years ago today we won U21 All Ireland in Ennis.

Mayo Mayo. You’re right about that last report but that one included finance and I’d say that was a big stumbling block. If what is being proposed here is simply on the football side it might, just might work. As said above. Something has to be done especially with the new game.

The original review had 75 recommendations covering a broad range of areas that engaged 10 different sub-committees.
These included coaching and games development, the development of high-potential players specifically in the 18-22 age group, club-board relations and structures, finance and funding, public relations, harnessing support of Mayo people worldwide, using Mayo GAA as a stimulator of economic activity, hurling and secondary schools.

Mayo County Board wouldn't even assist the review when in came to finances
"The inadequacy of the information provided by Mayo County Board made it very difficult for our finance and funding committee to carry out a proper review,"

Now, the move to digital ticketing has removed the cash loses at the gate, so there is a lot more clarity there.

The report wanted a CEO and a Director of Coaching. It took 15 years to post an add for a CEO and still no add out for a Director of Coaching.

Dust down the report, run it through Chat GPT asking for updated recommendations for the current GAA (and rules), then get a James Horan type director of coaching in place and sort it out.
We cant be doing that though. We have 24 Committee members who all want their speak and expenses - cut 10 of them and pay for a director of coaching.

A committee just needs CEO, Director of coaching, Chairperson, Secretary, Treasurer, administrator, Fixtures person, Connacht delegate (1 only), Football rep, Hurling Rep, Ladies Rep (coming down the tracks) and PRO.

There is a serious demographic problem coming down the tracks - Why can't Mayo lead the way on reform, we were last to take to the new rules in football, will be last to have a centre of excellence (which isn't even in the centre), we could try to be ahead of the curve for a change.

There is a formula for improving the quality of the senior team by drastically changing how your underage is structured. Holland invented one for soccer (which Ireland have copied but are refusing to implement due to internal politics), Belgium improved on it. The template is there.

I'll ask an open question - I would be surprised if the answer was more than 4-5 clubs - How many clubs in Mayo have a detailed, structures player development plan, complete with KPI's to map out how they plan to develop players with each of the key skills in football and how many they are looking to develop at each age group so that they can spit out the following at senior club level: 3 x GK (with 12 different types of goalkicks in their locker), 6x man markers, 4 x playmakers, 6 x tall highfielders, 4 x goal scorers (2 left and 2 right), 4 x long range free takers (2 left and 2 right).

Also there is no such thing as a "natural" in anything. The player that looks natural works on his skills (in the correct technique) on his own.
Kobe Bryant lived in Italy mostly playing soccer until he was 12
Micheal Jordan took up basketball at 12.
Joel Embiid began playing basketball at age 15 after being discovered in Cameroon.
Tim Duncan did not pick up basketball until age 14.
Steve Nash started at 13.
Ian Wright played Sunday league soccer until he was 22, Jamie Vardy did the same until 24
Bernard Hopkins took up boxing at 18.

We have kids out training in fields from 6 years old, running the legs off them in their teenage years and no plan whatsoever for late developers or finding kids from other sports and training them to play GAA.

Donegal have a long history of dual Soccer/Gaelic players - how many have ever done the same in Mayo and played for the county team.

We have scarce resources and we cast the net even narrower. Unless their is drastic change in how Mayo go about player development. we will never win the All Ireland.

Today, we have no tall midfield players (6ft 4+) in any county team. Haven't had a forward who can kick 45's regularly for 20 years. No left foot attacking players who are regularly playing in the senior team. No top quality centre back for 20 years, 1 tall athletic full back in 25 years. No tall scoring full forward for 50 years.
We have had no playmaking centre forward for 20 years.
We have running half backs spilling out all over the place for decades, we are now overflowing with undersized running midfielders, but still no ff, FB, CB or centre forward who could be described as top class.

We need a coaching development officer who's sole role is implement plans to develop these kind of players.

There was only one player on the field last Sunday who can comfortably kick an accurate footpass in each of the 4 basic ways (hook left/right, punt left/right). That 1 guy is off to Australia so there will be none next year.

At the very least we should ban all solo runs under 18 - they have been, and continue to be, the ruination of Mayo football. A county wide philosophy on kicking ball is needed as a bare minimum, even if we have to implement rules in our underage teams that aren't applied in Connacht championships.

Or we can do nothing and face the fact that we will all die before Mayo win Sam Maguire.

Go and find out how many full time coaches are employed in Mayo GAA and then have a look at some of the other top countries and you’ll find part of the problem.

It’s a joke what’s going on. Too many people involved for their own gain and egos.

Dark Finn
It’s a old Japanese saying

It’s not the size of the dog in the fight.
It’s the size of the fight in the dog.

Bigger picture is development and how many of last nights crop can become county Seniors.

On a separate note Connacht Senior final tickets on sale today covered stand 10€ for children proving Prenty and the Connnacht GAA got it wrong for their semi final prices but I doubt they'll give any public apology.

Best team on the day! end of!

@Tirawleybaron Interesting post. Think a bit harsh on view of types of players we've not had, but I agree on the main point being made.
Let's just for God sake get some basics fixed.
Something is happening like running or still tests are filtering out tall midfielders. Like how can we not have hardly one?
Let me shock you. There are posters on here, who were better than Robert Lewandiwski at soccer age 10, 11, 12.
Go watch his documentary, absolutely regular standard. He was small and light, but even his skills were the same as decent in the school yard.
Now most people plateau, he worked obsessively hard to get better month on month.
That's how he did it.
Now, yes, he had a big growth spurt, but you have to blast on hard for each 1% better.
We don't do that. Our players tend to plateau at 17.

Just watched the first half there on TG4 (because I like to live in the present). A lot of waffle being talked here. Ros imo were a better balanced team. Their no. 13 (who is no giant by the way) scored a brace of beautiful points to keep them in touch. Mayo were relying on a few - nos. 11, 15 13, 8. no. 6 was ok too. Every manager goes out to source the best players for his team. Having big physical lads at underage is an obvious advantage, but they must be able to play to their strengths and contribute. Mayo have a lot of underage coaches and that's to be commended. It's no walk in the park these days for coaches trying to get young lads "who know it all" take on board instructions. I know of a former Kerry great who opted out of coaching due to the attitudes of minors.

@Charlie. Well said. Better team won yesterday (though 3 or 4 huge men made a difference).if none of the 2012 to 2017 players were involved in managing there would be complaints too..regarding the senior team it will be time enough writing the obituary when the season is over as anything can happen yet.

A lot of interesting comments on here for sure and to be honest a huge amount of differing opinions and strangely enough, or not nearly all have their merits in different ways. Were Roscommon better than Mayo last night?Some ways yes and in other ways no.One thing for sure is we handed them the game on a plate. Both teams made mistakes, but we made the far greater ones that should never have happened. Notable the keepers clanger and Lydon(who had a very good game generally) catching the ball and kicking it over the bar instead of just tapping it into the net!

Mayo came a long way from their opening game v sligo. And they are a development group. Better team one and frightenly they had the edge on physicality.
A good eye opener for everyone

@tirawleybaron that's the best post I've read on here.
Fair play and well said

The aspect I find so disappointing is we had our strongest minor teams from 2022-2024 in a decade yet now as we look at it, it doesn’t feel like we are going to get a huge traction out of those teams. We have not followed up those minor teams at u20 with clear progression of key players from those sides and these would have been the long term prospects for Mayo

The 2022 minor team had players like Ronan Clarke, Niall Hurley, Diarmuid Duffy, Paul Gilmore and John McMonagle. Bar maybe McMonagle, none of them have progressed to the level I’d hoped. Even McMonagle seems to have slipped back

The 2023 minor team had Tom Lydon, Darragh Beirne, Eoin McGreal, Rio Mortimer.and Yousif Coghill as standouts. Darragh Beirne has progressed the most but if you base it on last night, are we talking Cillian OConnor level of talent or a level little behind this

Of the 2024 minors, why are we not seeing Tom Hession or Mark Noonan push on. Injuries maybe but these lads are not seemingly progressing as hoped

One exception on the underage sides is Colm Lynch who has gone from being a tidy light wing forward as a minor, to a powerful running half back. He’s a player that is developing. Why are the other lads not?

That is for me as big a concern as the sense we have no talent coming thru

I think people need to remember on the issue of minor/u20 players not progressing is that alot of things change and life gets in the way.

Some just aren’t good enough, injuries, college and life. Lads emigrate for college, work and some lads just don’t want the commitment involved which ain’t for everyone. I knew a club player, natural baller, sublime skill and was asked into Mayo trials a few years back, he said no thanks not for me.

I completely get that Yew Tree but the concern is that the most talented players off our best underage teams (u17 2022-2023) do not look to be progressing to the level hoped.

I appreciate this is due to a multitude of factors and these lads are still young but as a county if we have any ambitions of getting back to the national stage at senior level, these underage players would have been the big hope. For me anyhow

Bar Kobe starting last week in the senior game, we didn’t have one minor footballer from 2021-2023 teams starting, Roscommon had 3 lads.

Trawley, the level of coaching you’re talking about takes the fun out of it for younger lads. It is after all just a sport. If it gets too serious some will be lost.. I think the best for underage is a club to development squad system where players get used to stiffer marking from bigger more mobile and more skilled opponents. Being a big fish in a small pond doesn’t prepare a player for the bigger pond. Kerry have it in their club system and they’re the most successful county.
On size, Diarmaid Murtagh is far from a giant of a man, his game is built on brains + skill. He makes space for himself. The KPI focus sounds like producing robots. We incidentally have a 6’5” lad in midfield in the seniors and a 6’4” veteran in the forwards. People have complained about their performance against Ros. One has the dog in him albeit with a mobility challenge in midfield for 70 or even close but stuck in FF (without much high ball going in and losing lower balls to pacier players) and the other seems to lack championship aggression levels or confidence, yet to step up at this level. So perhaps we can try Thornton or Irwin but no guarantees with them thrown in without league blooding in 26. Ruane without enough high fielding seems a better option due to his mobility and scoring potential. Flynn has enough aggression in the middle but despite his strength doesn’t get up for too many high catches. Like Ruane he’s probably only about 6’1” or 6’2” at most but the more consistent high fielders are 6’3” or 6’4” or even taller. That said the Rossies midfielders weren’t too big, they were just punching upfield long most of the time to ball hungry (mostly) half forwards. That’s something we had ourselves with Kevin Mc and Jason Doc, neither particularly big men but they understood how important it was to get in for those balls. Kerry had it with Galvin who was hugely effective. I will however agree with the boxing adage that a big good un is usually better than a smaller good un or something to that effect. The important part is to be good in the first place.

The better teams are able to adapt player’s styles. Mickey Harte was a master of it even bringing back the McMahon brothers to dog it with Kerry’s twin towers. They were asked to do a job they weren’t that used to and did it. Aido did the same in a replay vs Kerry and it worked. Donegal bulked up a noble half forward by about 2 stone and put him in midfield in the early 2010s and that also worked. The player obviously bought into it. I would agree in a football mad county like ours we should have an ambitious underage programme but the #1 aim from it is to win a senior AI.

Well said Charlie A lot of sense there in your post. Once we lose a game even one as good as last nights game everything is wrong. Our players are too small. too unskilled, poorly prepared etc Our management is inexperienced, is not up to it, is part of an old boys club etc. And as for our Co board ,,,,,,,,,. Had we won last night the narrative would be so different. For me the most worrying thing is to lose games we are so capable of winning. I think of individual mistakes made by players last night. I think of Dublin two years ago when we took the lead in the second last play of the game but allowed a Dublin midfielder a clear catch from the kick out and they went up to level the game. A similar event last year v Donegal. Boland kicked a fantastic equaliser only for a Donegal chap to get clean possession from the kick out and score the winner. We lack that hard and ruthless edge to see out games we should or could win. Who is to blame for that. Is it the Co Board, a whole host of managers, , players who make individual errors or is it just part of our dna because it seems to happen to us extraordinarily often.

Does anyone know if we have money to support developing underage structures and coaching? Is the McHale Park redevelopment bill completed? Are we really going to spend 20 million on county COE in Bohola without the coaching framework setup or is it "Build it and they will come". It's probably for the incoming CEO to deal with fundraising and finance but it must be a factor to consider in supporting player development.

Hard to disagree with most of the above comments especially the ones regarding breaking ball because that's something that can be rectified easier than making lads taller.
However if the keeper hadn't unfortunately handed the ball to a Roscommon forward to roll into an empty net the whole mood and commentary on here would be different. Everything can swing in a split second and that's the beauty of competitive sport, heartbreaking as that can be at times.

We are taking our time fixing the possession from kickouts problem at all age levels.
Our goalkeeper wasn't the only one to make critical mistakes, Rossies deserve full credit
Now they have a date with Kerry, a lot of familiar surnames on that outfit

We can all pretend its not happening, but we haven't been able to put 2 5/6 point forwards on a field for 75 years. Every team that has beaten Mayo in a big match has had 2 forwards who can win their own ball and score 1-3, 0-5 from play. We never have.
We haven't had a reliable 45 taker since Maurice Sheridan and Michael Fitzmaurice.
We have not midfielder to go an win a kick out under pressure. Kerry dug out 2 club players last year and still won an All Ireland - beating Donegal up a stick at midfield.

My point is we probably have them - we have all these county panels and development panels - but they aren't developing the kind of players needed.

Aiden O Shea has been a great footballer, but no manager wince 2015 has used his strengths at all. Its plainly obvious that he can do at job at midfield at the end of a game to win some kickouts. Its more obvious he hasn't the pace to play a full match in full forward.

Who is it obvious to Tirawley ?
O shea at midfield is a myth , he not played there for Breaffy never mind Mayo , can't run and even no longer can jump .
Why don't we kick high ball into Aido ?
Simple he looses it , fumbles it and if he does win it , is as slow as Xmas and gets crowded out before overcarrying .

You need to face facts , our past 4 or 5 managers aren't stupid and have best access to player information and O shea isn't trusted or used, he's no longer an option , even though would be great if he was, simple facts are there to be seen .

People laud his performance against the Dubs this year in the league when he came on .
He did nothing but slow ball down, it takes another player to cover his running.
I'm not being unfair here , I have been at the league games and even fbd games , time has caught up with him , but it's annoying people persist with "pop him into midfield" when reality he hasn't been a midfielder in a very long time and even when he was , he wasn't our best most consistent option there, Seamie and Parsons were far more consistent

Can't base the future on sentiment or past glories. That said, the biggest error Mayo folks could make would be to call for a new manager. Nobody will want to touch the job if people's demands and expectations aren't realistic. Anyone who thought Roscommon were there for the taking is deluded. They're going to be trouble for the top teams come the serious business.
They lay down in the league for us knowing rightly we'd be suckered into our own pomposity.
This job is a long-term project. It's going to take quite some time.

Year 1 is a learning year, there will be great interest in Andys next mayo team, lessons learned orignored?

Agreed roscommon are going to trouble lots of teams as they are as good as any team outside the top 4 and maybe even top 2.. i have a genuine question especially for posters who have written mayo off (i can understand that feeling)after 1 championship loss/collapse...what do people think of donegal who are all ireland contenders in many minds getting beaten by a team who played division 3 football this year I'm not trying to stir any pot BTW.

I Wouldn't be writing Donegal off now, that was a cracking good match and Donegal were carrying the curse of winning the league with them.
I think the Donegal management know what they are doing, that probably counts for something too

Nobody is writing Mayo off, but were we in the conversation about potential Sam winning teams? Donegal were, and they'll probably still be in it when the majority are eliminated. One thing we know for sure is there's no such thing as a lost cause with the new rules. You can be certain Donegal county board will throw McGuiness anything he asks for. He won't be fearing the sack if they bow out early.

Watching back the game, I think the narrative that we were overrun in the third quarter is off, we won plenty of ball in the muck, but failed to capitalise on it, whereas every Rossie win did, are we too focused on defence failures vs offence? I hated it when McStay said it but it's stuck with me, think it was vs Kerry in the league final, something along the lines of "it doesn't matter what the game plan is if the players can't execute the basic skills of the game" for me this is where we are at

That they haven't mastered the basic skills is a bit harsh in fairness.
Where do you start when it comes to team building. You get your spine in place. 3, 6, 8, 9, 11, 14.
I get shivers up my spine when I see how Andy built our spine.
My recollection of the third quarter was watching exhibition football

Outside of the boot you’re right . Our past 4 or 5 managers weren’t stupid and have the best access to player information and they constantly choose O Shea on their panel and more frequently their team. In fact every manager all the way back to Johnno have seen fit to include him. Yes he is coming to the end of his career now and may not merit a starting place anymore but one has to presume he is a positive presence in the camp. Anyone who has devoted 17 years of their life playing for their county with no major success has shown incredible resilience - a quality that was dreadfully lacking throughout the field on Sunday. I can’t really say things improved much when he was taken off